Ron_brock Posted November 21, 2018 Share #1 Posted November 21, 2018 Was advertised as a pickup and having spent some time in the water. I can faintly see some of the etching on the blade. Any thoughts on authenticity and if the blade is SA or something else? Thanks Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakkasan187 Posted November 22, 2018 Share #2 Posted November 22, 2018 Ron, Interesting and in relic condition.. I don't really believe the entire dagger is original to itself. I am focusing on the condition of the balde and handle, which does look like it had spent time submerged or buried. The scratches in the wood handle look like an attempt to clean whatever was caked on it. The blade itself with the heavy pitting and wear on it, I would say it most likely would have been the standard SA dagger with ALLES FUR DEUTSCHLAND inscription but it is difficult to say now. The roundel appears to be the SA symbol. The wood handle has obviously shrunk and I can accept this based on the gaps between the top cross guard and the edge of the dagger. This should have a nice tight fit and in some cases when the pommel nut is tightened too much this will cause wood cracking. What really has me thinking this was put together is the condition of the top and bottom nickel plated cross guards. These "appear" too fresh and does not really have any consistency with the rest of the condition of the dagger. I would expect to see some further deterioration and breakdown of the nickel plate as well as more pitting which I don't see. The bottom cross guard does not have a tight fit with the blade and there appears to be a gap or space between the blade and cross guard. Now I will take into consideration the fact that this may have been buried or submerged but for metal alloys to change shape that drastically I would have to again be suspicious of the dagger being all parts original to this particular piece. This is just my opinion but I believe the cross guards were added to the dagger to make the story more "believable" I'm sure you will get some more thoughts on this from one of our resident subject matter experts SARGE and some other members... Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted November 23, 2018 Share #3 Posted November 23, 2018 Thanks for the excellent analysis Leigh. You are looking at the same things I am seeing on this dagger Ron, I typically try to look for things that raise a red flag for me such as the cross guards and their fit to the wood as Leigh described. Each red flag lessens my confidence in the originality of the piece. I then move to a baseball analogy of three strikes and you are out. This dagger has three strikes for me. I also don't care much for the eagle in the grip. These eagles with an exaggerated top knot and misshapen head like this have been faked. It almost looks like a Spanish Marto copy eagle but it is not. At any rate it is too proud and is another red flag for me. The problem that Leigh pointed out with the fitment of the blade to the guard is the most obvious red flag. The blade was cut square at the tang and its shoulders do not follow the curve of the cross guard. This is not ground or water damage but it was made incorrectly. This makes me think the blade is not original and was artificially aged in order to cover this up to produce a relic that might be salable. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this dagger would not be one that I would buy. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakkasan187 Posted November 23, 2018 Share #4 Posted November 23, 2018 George, Thank you for your informed input as well.. I deeply respect the amount of knowledge you have in this particular area and I have learned much from the topics posted here.. Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_brock Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share #5 Posted November 24, 2018 Thank you Leigh and George both for the input. I doubted that the cross guards were in the water with the blade. As was mentioned, I would expect some zinc oxidation and pits. Fortunately I dont have much into it, but was looking to sell and wanted to be more sure of what I had before listing. I dont like to carry on stories and fake items if I can prove them to have too many issues. I will list as a likely reproduction when I do go to sell. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_brock Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share #6 Posted November 24, 2018 I should have noted that the emblem is SA. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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