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WWI UK cut down Wilkinson 1907 bayonet trench knife


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#1 Bob Hudson

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:33 AM

I have read about British bayonets being modified as trench knives and this appears to be one of them. 

 

Whomever did the work did a nice job cutting down the scabbard too. 

 

It is marked Wilkinson, has three ENFIELD factory inspector marks and plenty of other stamps.  The blade is 249 mm long, just under 10 inches.

 

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#2 Bob Hudson

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:44 AM

Here's my interpretation of the marks on this one:

 

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#3 Tony v

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 06:48 PM

Bob

 

    Great looking fighting knife.

 

Tony



#4 SARGE

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 07:30 AM

It seems that some of these UK bayonets were officially cut down by various secondary users but frankly I don;t know how to tell one from another.  For instance, the Germans cut down some captured bayonets of this type during the war.  However, your tear shaped scabbard lug indicates Australian made (I believe) so not cut down by the Germans.  The Austrians supposedly cut down some for their Enfield rifles postwar but chances of this are not good either simply because of logistics of the different theater of operations.  I have seen the blades cut with a spear point or a clip point (like yours) indicating different armorers but I don't know which is which.  I think the Indians also cut down some as well.

 

Not much help I am afraid and probably more confusing than before.  At least the shortening may be official rather than done by "Bubba".



#5 RustyCanteen

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 04:47 PM

Great bayonet. Adding to the discussion of cut down bayonets, there were Pattern 1907 bayonets cut down by Turkey in the 1940s, often with reworked cross-guards to adapt them to a Mauser rifle. These are usually thought to be from a batch sold post-WWI in the 1920s, as well as possibly a number of bayonets captured during the fighting at Gallipoli. Those are usually seen in steel scabbards.

 

The hole in the pommel was approved in the list of changes for 1916 I believe, but often seen added on reworked bayonets. It can be a helpful identifier, since it should not be present on a 1915 or earlier Pattern 1907 bayonet as originally manufactured.



#6 doyler

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 10:04 PM

The leather frog on the posted scabbard sure looks like a german made frog for a 98k type scabbard



#7 RustyCanteen

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 10:16 PM

The leather frog on the posted scabbard sure looks like a german made frog for a 98k type scabbard

 

 

Yes it does, and I cannot think of any UK bayonet frog of that distinct design and color (appears to be dyed black). The leather versions used with the Pattern-1907 and Pattern-1914 bayonets were completely different. By the WWII and later years, almost all UK frogs (excepting the leather home guard pattern) were made of webbing.



#8 doyler

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 10:48 PM

 

 

Yes it does, and I cannot think of any UK bayonet frog of that distinct design and color (appears to be dyed black). The leather versions used with the Pattern-1907 and Pattern-1914 bayonets were completely different. By the WWII and later years, almost all UK frogs (excepting the leather home guard pattern) were made of webbing.

 

The stitch pattern and grip strap,double rivits follow the german type to my eye as well.I would be interested if any markings were still visible like date/manufacturer on the back.Sometimes hard to see after years of use.

 

Did the French Legion use any of these post war or cut them down for knives? I have a cut down one I should post.not sure who used it.


Edited by doyler, 15 December 2018 - 10:49 PM.


#9 RustyCanteen

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Posted 17 December 2018 - 01:17 PM

I will have a look to see what my references show for cut-downs. At one time the Indian cut-down bayonets were on the market, but after a while a lot of collectors started to refer to almost any cut-down as having been done in India. It was something done in many countries though, commonwealth and not.



#10 SARGE

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 08:23 AM

The frog is German.  I have a similar cut down British bayonet that came with a similar German frog as well.  

 

The Germans did use, and modify, captured enemy equipment and they did officially rework and re-issue such equipment including rifles and bayonets.  Here is a photo of some Luftwaffe personnel cleaning their re-issued British rifles.  Too bad they don't have their bayonets attached in this photo.  Taken from a photograph album that I have.

 

 

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  • Lee Enfield Luftwaffe.jpeg


#11 Windraider

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 11:20 AM

SARGE is right. This is a german reworked britisch P1907 bayonet.

#12 Kanemono

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 01:19 PM

This is a very interesting topic. Here id the bayonet and scabbard lightened to shoe detail. The frog looks German to me. If you click on the picture it will enlarge.

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  • cut-down-bayonet.jpg

Edited by Kanemono, 16 March 2019 - 01:20 PM.


#13 Windraider

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 06:34 AM

Hello,

 

the frog is german.

 

The Germans called this bayones in original lenth or cut down  - Seitengewehr 101(e) - (e = english). The Germans made extensive use of captured material for second or third line troops. 

 

In Germany, I have found some from private households or in farms. Others were recovered as land finds. Many of them in places where the last battles took place.

Also many were found buried in former depots of the Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labor Service) in the ground.

 

Here are some of the bayonets. 

 

 

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#14 Windraider

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 06:36 AM

2

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#15 Windraider

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 06:37 AM

3 - with a little shorter blade 

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#16 Windraider

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 06:38 AM

4

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#17 Windraider

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 06:46 AM

Here's a good (and early) find from a PAK-position near Füssen. The S101 (e) was here supplied a German S84 / 98 and found so.

 

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#18 SARGE

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:19 AM

Here is another one that is identified as a S101 (e) also in a S 84/98 German frog.  Notice that this one has also been re-furbished by the British in the inter-war time period and have re-furbishment dates on the blades and British added oil holes in the pommels.

 

 

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#19 Windraider

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 09:47 AM

A lot of them were captured in Dunkirk, Malta, Greek and northern Africa




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