Jump to content


Photo

Strange WW2 Chinese Dagger Vet Bring Back


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Bill Scott

Bill Scott
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,164
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:55 AM

First of all the dagger has a lot of Damage but is like nothing I have ever seen.The dagger is the same size as a standard Chinese Army Dagger.The scabbard appears to be thin brass with a four character panel photo etched on the front with a cross hatch pattern decoration and reverse of the scabbard has a Chinese Dragon also photo etched on it.The cross guard has the top part of a face that looks like like a Siamese eyes and nose on it. the blade has Chinese characters and a Chinese Sun on one side and on the other just Chinese Characters.If anyone can make out what it says and what it might be I would appreciate your help very much.The wood bade of the handle is still there but but all tortoise shell covering is gone.

Attached Images

  • 2019-06-05_112527.jpg
  • 2019-06-05_112814.jpg
  • 2019-06-05_113614.jpg


#2 Bill Scott

Bill Scott
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,164
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:56 AM

Last photo

Attached Images

  • 2019-06-05_113010.jpg


#3 Eric Queen

Eric Queen

    Douche Baggins of the Shire.

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 3,953
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:19 AM

Bill,

 

I think it is upside down. 軍人魂 = Soldiers Spirit

Attached Images

  • post-185164-0-81250100-1559753749.jpg


#4 Bill Scott

Bill Scott
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,164
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:24 AM

Thanks Eric that's one mystery down.Scotty



#5 Eric Queen

Eric Queen

    Douche Baggins of the Shire.

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 3,953
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:35 AM

Bill,

 

Can you post a better (larger/clearer) image of the first (top) character on your far right photo? I cannot read it. 

 

The last (bottom) character is = to give, to bestow, to honor. Perhaps the first 3 characters are someones name. 



#6 Bill Scott

Bill Scott
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,164
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 10:11 AM

Here is as good as it gets with a different filter.Scotty

Attached Images

  • 2019-06-05_130049 (2).jpg


#7 Eric Queen

Eric Queen

    Douche Baggins of the Shire.

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 3,953
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 10:36 AM

I think I may have figured it out. One of the adopted names of Chiang Kai-shek. 

 

"Sometime in 1917 or 1918, as Chiang became close to Sun Yat-sen, he changed his name from Jiang Zhiqing to Jiang Zhongzheng (Chinese蔣中正)

 

https://en.wikipedia...Chiang_Kai-shek

 

蔣中正


Edited by Eric Queen, 05 June 2019 - 02:23 PM.


#8 Bill Scott

Bill Scott
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,164
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2019 - 05:11 PM

Eric if that's what it says do you think it was presented to him or from him.I have owned a lot of Chinese daggers and this is like nothing I have ever seen.Extra engraving on the blade crazy cross guard I kind of thought it may be something unusual.That you for all your hard work you are a true lover of Militaria.Best Bill



#9 Eric Queen

Eric Queen

    Douche Baggins of the Shire.

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 3,953
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 June 2019 - 05:32 AM

Bill, with my very modest understanding of Chinese, this should mean that he (CKS) is the one giving/presenting the piece to someone. 蔣中正賜



#10 Eric Queen

Eric Queen

    Douche Baggins of the Shire.

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 3,953
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 June 2019 - 06:15 AM

http://www.desertsco...m.php?itemId=11

 

 

It would seem that this dagger could perhaps be one of the ones he gave the graduates of the Chinese Army Officers Academy (founded in 1924, he was the first head of the academy)

 

There seem to have been more than one version of this dagger. The one in the link uses a different character for "give", "present" ( 贈 ) same meaning. 

 

I also found a version where the word "school principal". "head master" (校長) preceded his name. 

 

Neat historical piece. 


Edited by Eric Queen, 06 June 2019 - 09:30 AM.


#11 Eric Queen

Eric Queen

    Douche Baggins of the Shire.

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 3,953
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 June 2019 - 06:45 AM

Another dagger posted on this forum has the same slogan (but on the grip)

 

成功 Success

 

成仁 To die with a cause

 

Translated by Hsin C. 

Attached Images

  • CKS.jpg

Edited by Eric Queen, 06 June 2019 - 06:47 AM.


#12 Bill Scott

Bill Scott
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,164
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:19 AM

Eric thank you again for your expert detective work on the dagger.You are right it is a neat bit of history.Best Bill



#13 Kanemono

Kanemono
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,184
  • 233 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 June 2019 - 11:12 AM

These daggers are fakes. The Chinese have been making both swords and these daggers for years. The guards are poorly sand cast along with the scabbard furniture. The blades are also poorly etched.

Dick



#14 Eric Queen

Eric Queen

    Douche Baggins of the Shire.

  • Moderators
    • Member ID: 3,953
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 June 2019 - 07:23 AM

That is interesting Dick. I did not know these even existed until a couple days ago. Any chance you can post images of what you think is a real one for comparison? Thanks. 



#15 Hsin C.

Hsin C.
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,326
  • 47 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2019 - 02:19 PM

I agree, it is a fake.

 

There are also fake air force daggers too.



#16 Hsin C.

Hsin C.
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,326
  • 47 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2019 - 09:27 PM

Here is one of mine. Just the dagger itself and no scabbard. The words have each stroke individually stamped as well the design on the handle.

I think the OP's scabbard has writing; I don't think I recall seeing writing on scabbards before. I know there are a couple fakes/repros that do have writing on the scabbard.

Attached Images

  • 64268641_10115279671397914_769690300158312448_n.jpg


#17 Hsin C.

Hsin C.
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,326
  • 47 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2019 - 09:32 PM

With Chiang Kaishek.

Attached Images

  • 62230113_10115279671417874_4792938259703398400_n.jpg


#18 Bill Scott

Bill Scott
  • Members
    • Member ID: 185,164
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2019 - 06:19 AM

After seeing the quality of the fittings on the Dagger  Hsin C listed I think the one I have is fake.The cross guard as stated is sand cast the scabbard looks funky and nothing looks of any good quality.Thanks everyone for another lesson in collectibles.Scotty




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users