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Japanese Navy Round Rate Insignia


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#1 tiger41

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:40 AM

There currently is a mixed grouping of IJN round rates for sale on ebay ....these are all common rates,as far as the rank and corps goes except for the single field rate; red on green. "Red on green" rates are very difficult to find and this one alone would be worth the cost of the group by itself....If it was real !!!!!!  This rate is a reproduction....I do not know the seller nor am I saying he is intentionally or knowingly selling a fake. My concern is helping members of the WMF.  IJN insignia, particularly naval "round rates", cloth insignia can be a "mine field". By knowing what to look for, bad items are not hard to spot . The newer fakes are getting better and a little harder to pick out.  If you are one of those who have bid on or are thinking of bidding on this group and are not sure, PM me and I would be happy to answer any questions and explain what to look for so you can judge for yourself.



#2 vintageproductions

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 12:52 PM

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#3 shemp h.

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:47 PM

Greetings Tiger41,this is my first time posting,in response to your post June 7,how do you tell the difference between a fake and a real IJN round rating? Thank you in advance. Bill G.

#4 tiger41

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:21 PM

shemp h.,

I will give you the answer shortyly....I have a concussion from ice hockey....need several days.

tiger41



#5 shemp h.

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 02:15 PM

No problem,I hope you feel better soon.

#6 tiger41

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 09:08 PM

shemp h,

 

Sorry for the delay in answering your question. Without going into all the history of the “round rates” there were four different types between the turn of the century and November 1942 when the “round rates” were abolished and replaced by the IJN. I think the rates that most collectors are interested in are those worn post 1925 to 1942. The full-dress rates, gold embroiderer insignia on black round wool w/hard backer along with the full-dress band rate, gold embroiderer insignia on a red round wool w/hard backer were abolished about 1925.

This leaves the Type I (winter), II (summer)and III (NLF) rates; While there are differences in the construction, color and materials of these rates there are also similarities that make most (not all) of the repros fairly easy to spot. The appliques (the emblems) on each of these rates was a separate piece of material that is die struck (not cut out by hand) and along with some stitched details on the emblem were hand tacked (sewn) to the round cloth background material. This means the appliques are all symmetrical and uniform and appear the same regardless of the color or type of patch. If you look at the crossed wrenches and cherry blossom on the Type III (red on green) patch (bottom right) and compare it to the applique on the Type I (bottom left) you should notice how crude the cut and design of the Type III is.  Other than the color, they should be an exact copy of each other. You will also note that the Type I and Type II are the same size & perfectly round and compare that to the Type III which, once again, is not. Dead giveaway. The back of the Type II and III rates should look the same also. Warning…some of the newer repros have gotten very good over the past several years and they are out there. I hope this helps you...if you look at all the different emblems and get accustomed to how they appear, you can spot natural wear or damage and distinguish it from a bad patch. There is a lot to this subject and this is a quick over view...I hope it helps a little and I'll try to answer any questions you have....in better time then I did on this one.



#7 shemp h.

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 02:34 PM

Thank you very much Tiger. Bill


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