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Japanese snow camo helmet


smbr57
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No doubt in my mind of their Camo paint originality. These are really great helmets, not often seen. I’m aware of the commentary that Camo was not permitted but I think it is very unrealistic to say that it categorically did not happen, full stop.

 

Regards

 

Russ

It’s funny how some people think Militaria should always be textbook. The same discussion occurs with German helmets. Such as the absurd discussion on another forum that the Germans never painted their helmets white because someone dig up a directive saying that equipment should be whitewashed for winter camouflage.

 

 

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Here is a black painted helmet that was white prior. The huge banzai charge on Attu was dome in the middle of the night. It’s a real stretch to say that is what this is, a night camo for a banzai charge in Alaska

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. But it’s intriguing that there is snow camo paint underneath.

 

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There are certainly some things we don’t know the answers to yet when it comes to some Camo helmets, but we need to approach them with an open mind. Not everything can be blamed on the Seabees producing enhanced souvenirs for those behind the lines, even though we have photographic evidence of them making hinomaru yosegaki flags!

 

Regards

 

Russ

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I wondered how long it would be before we got around to camo painted helmets. Its a hot topic that needs to be discussed if we are going to learn anything; You have to ask; if the Japanese painted a helmet "white"...which I'm convinced they did, than what would stop any soldier from painting a helmet some other color....say, "black", "green" or perhaps two colors ? After all, no one questions naval helmets factory painted blue-gray and once in the field were painted brown (for camo) and then blue-gray again. I have seen that and a lot more than on 1 or 2 helmets. Certainly the army para helmet posted by "Eric" is an unique way to "camo" a helmet...and it is a form of camo. There was a IJA unit who late in the war flew into Okinawa on a last ditch suicide mission. I've read they blotched their uniforms with ink for camo...if someone did that, why wouldn't they consider painting their helmet? All you need is time and paint....say a color like black. Over the years I've seen at least 15 or more IJN para helmets (owned 4) and 3 of the 4 I've owned and a number of the others are all painted the same "pea green" color over their original factory brown. Recently there was IJN "stencil anchor" helmet on ebay....this helmet had a single coat of green (very similar to the green interior of the Attu helmet pictured above) over the helmets original factory brown...with evidence of a thin wash of gray between coats of paint with unit markings inside. The yellow stencil anchor insignia can be seen peeking through the paint on the front of the helmet. To me, adding a color like green over brown is "camo". But if the regulation helmet color was brown...you would think there would be a lot of brown paint available. And yet we always see helmets with different colors. Why is that ? In my humble opinion,(and experience) men in combat did (and still do) a lot of things in the field that, while not regulation, were practical and even necessary. I think that most of these soldiers were limited not by regulations, but rather than by the situation, the paint available (which would have been limited) and their imagination..I'm not saying that some US soldier didn't take a souvenir helmet and paint it....I've seen that too...but I think we would be foolish to think that the Japanese themselves didn't paint their own helmets more often than some would have us believe. I'd be interested in hearing what you think ...even seeing examples. Just a reminder, please be civil we're all friends in collecting here !

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Thanks, Tiger. Concur completely. I traded an early naval round top for this. It had two layers of grey paint. One blue grey and the outer layer was dark grey, almost black. The anchor was yellow at one point but overpainted.

 

I was going to bid on that green navy helmet but didn’t have the cash. Really nice piece.

 

I have a late war navy cover found in a Marine footlocker a while back that has Screwpine vegetation tied into it by way of holes made by a bayonet. The insignia was removed, maybe souvenired by another. It looks unbelievable but another collector has a late war navy helmet with battle damage with the same twined vegetation in a kind of lattice or net framework.

 

 

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Eric Queen

I am not even close to being knowledgeable on Japanese helmets but I have examined my share of painted (German) helmets over the years. I, personally, really like the look of the ones which started this thread and agree with what John has said (above) regarding camouflage helmets in general. Just for discussion, I wonder what peoples thoughts on this one would be.

Japanese_Army_M-41_Paratrooper_Steel_Helmet,_camouflaged,_left,_DPowers_coll.,.jpg_(Large).JPG

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Eric,

All these helmets have got to give pause to stop and really think about this topic....and what is possible. I have had a number of para helmets, both army and navy, and never seen army types camo'ed. Who would have thought. Regardless of how you feel about the subject, you would have to look long hard look at both of Eric's para helmets and stop and think......the one above is the same basic colors of the Japanese multi color helmet and body net. This is great stuff....and I'm happy we have the opportunity to see them both....in fact all the helmets that have been shown so far.

 

As a side note, I had a well known collector say to me once that "no one" would ever use "yellow" in any form when painting a helmet...so I ask "Then why do the Japanese use yellow insignia on both army and navy combat caps, helmet covers, in fact most of their headgear and as accent color on helmet/body nets and even on tank camo paint. The Japanese could have used a "black" anchor on their late war helmets but choose yellow. Black is a much easier color to find then yellow ! He didn't have an answer.

 

Eric, I wouldn't know where to begin with either of your para helmets...but just to be safe, you can mail them to me and give me a couple of years to look them over for you ! Just great stuff.

 

tiger41

 

PS; smbr57...I purchased the navy helmet on ebay. No offense, but I'm happy you didn't have the money that day, its a really good helmet and was a good buy.

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Eric,

All these helmets have got to give pause to stop and really think about this topic....and what is possible. I have had a number of para helmets, both army and navy, and never seen army types camo'ed. Who would have thought. Regardless of how you feel about the subject,  you would have to look long hard look at both of Eric's para helmets and stop and think......the one above is the same basic colors of the Japanese multi color helmet and body net. This is great stuff....and I'm happy we have the opportunity to see them both....in fact all the helmets that have been shown so far.

 

As a side note, I had a well known collector say to me once that "no one"  would ever use "yellow" in any form when painting a helmet...so I ask "Then why do the Japanese use yellow insignia on both army and navy combat caps, helmet covers, in fact most of their headgear and as accent color on helmet/body nets and even on tank camo paint. The Japanese could have used a "black" anchor on their late war helmets but choose yellow. Black is a much easier color to find then yellow ! He didn't have an answer.

 

Eric, I wouldn't know where to begin with either of your para helmets...but just to be safe, you can mail them to me and give me a couple of years to look them over for you ! Just great stuff.

 

tiger41

 

PS; smbr57...I purchased the navy helmet on ebay. No offense, but I'm happy you didn't have the money that day, its a really good helmet and was a good buy.

 

Congratulation! Good to know its going to someone that will appreciate it.

 

Here is that cover I mentioned with Pandanus or screwpine leaves (common on okinawa and iwo jima).

 

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Eric Queen

John,

 

The helmet with the paint application is not mine but I thought it would be an interesting addition to this conversation (the helmet from the other thread with the stained shell is mine and one of my absolute favorites)

 

There are couple more facts regarding this helmet (above) that don't necessarily mean anything but are interesting to note. (1) the helmet was pictured in one of Dick Dieters old Militaria magazines from the early 1970's (2) my father was physically present when the person who brought this helmet back from the Philippines sold it to the collector (who sold it to the collector who owns it today) in the late 1950's.

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smbr57; Thanks......the cover is very interesting.....I assume there are no stamps inside or insignia on the front. The number printed is like many naval unit markings that I have seen on a number of pieces of headgear.

 

Eric; I know we all say "never buy the story" and its true unless you are a part of the story. There is something to be said if your dad was there and knew some of the history. Many collectors today are younger and have a feel for the 1950-60 or 70's....life in general was VERY different then and most people didn't cared about this stuff....it had no value. Buying paint was different so few choices to pick from and even harder to find a place who sold what you needed. Even getting info was impossible until the mid 80's. I purchased an 3 color camo helmet from a Marine vet 20 plus years ago. I ask where he got it and he told me from a pile of helmets on Kadena Airfield on Okinawa in 45'. He also said...I'll be selling the other 2 helmets he brought home. When I ask about them, one was another army camo painted similar to the first with a name inside. The third was a naval gray painted Cherry Blossom. I ask if he painted them and he became indignant "Why would I do something like that". He had no idea about the helmets or even what they were. I still have 2 of them today and they are what they are. I can't explain them or how they got that way but I believe the Japanese painted them and they came from exactly where he said.

I will try to post a few of my camo helmets this week and I hope there are some more helmets to be shown by others....

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  • 5 months later...

smbr57;  Thanks......the cover is very interesting.....I assume there are no stamps inside or insignia on the front. The number printed is like many naval unit markings that I have seen on a number of pieces of headgear.

 

Eric; I know we all say "never buy the story" and its true unless you are a part of the story. There is something to be said if your dad was there and knew some of the history.  Many collectors today are younger and have a feel for the 1950-60 or 70's....life in general was VERY different then and most people didn't cared about this stuff....it had no value.  Buying paint was different so few choices to pick from and even harder to find a place who sold what you needed. Even getting info was impossible until the mid 80's. I purchased an 3 color camo helmet from a Marine vet 20 plus years ago. I ask where he got it and he told me from a pile of helmets on Kadena Airfield on Okinawa in 45'. He also said...I'll be selling the other 2 helmets he brought home. When I ask about them, one was another army camo painted similar to the first with a name inside. The third was a naval gray painted Cherry Blossom. I ask if he painted them and he became indignant "Why would I do something like that". He had no idea about the helmets or even what they were. I still have 2 of them today and they are what they are. I can't explain them or how they got that way but I believe the Japanese painted them and they came from exactly where he said. 

I will try to post a few of my camo helmets this week and I hope there are some more helmets to be shown by others....

Would love to see those helmets! Please post!

 

 

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smbr57,

This is what happens when you get old and busy....you forget to do things. I forgot about this and will do my best over the next few days to post a picture of the helmets....now if I can remember where I have the pictures !

tiger41

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