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Help with this flag


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#1 Leo

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:38 AM

Hi all

Wanted to get some info on this battle found flag Ive recently acquired.

It has the intelligence stamp so its been pulled from the combat zone, can anyone read any names or help with where it might have been found

Thanks in advance

#2 Leo

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:39 AM

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#3 Leo

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:39 AM

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#4 Leo

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:39 AM

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#5 Rod

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 01:34 PM

Hi Leo, 

 

Sorry I can't offer an opinion on this flag with any certainty. Certain aspects of the writing make me uncomfortable although it may be fine to someone who knows better. I do know this is the correct orientation for the kanji and flag... Regards

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Edited by Rod, 06 July 2019 - 01:37 PM.


#6 Leo

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 02:02 PM

Hi Leo, 
 
Sorry I can't offer an opinion on this flag with any certainty. Certain aspects of the writing make me uncomfortable although it may be fine to someone who knows better. I do know this is the correct orientation for the kanji and flag... Regards


Thanks for turning the flag around - that is the correct way for sure. What makes you uncomfortable ?

Hopefully Eric or tiger will chime in

#7 Rod

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 02:52 PM

Thanks for turning the flag around - that is the correct way for sure. What makes you uncomfortable ?

Hopefully Eric or tiger will chime in

 

Don't mind me Leo, like you I'd prefer to hear from Eric, tiger or Fortunes of War. I've been caught out by children's handwriting in the past so I'll leave it at that. 



#8 tiger41

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 02:59 PM

Leo,

Rod, thanks for turning it around.....I'm certainly not an expert on flags, I agree with Rod.....Looking at the writing, some of it does not have the flow or stroke shape that I am use to seeing or expect.  For me,  it doesn't look like a it was penned by a  "Japanese" hand. I see a few characters that don't even look like kanji and more like something made up.  While its possible for a person without much education or with bad handwriting to put something on a flag....there is far too much that doesn't look right for me. I think the word "uncomfortable" would accurately describe how I also feel about this piece. I hope I'm wrong.

tiger41



#9 Leo

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 02:36 AM

Thanks for the input guys,

These are a big learning curve for me and Im also looking at the writing styles now. This has the intelligence stamp on it so it has come from the combat zone, that with the large amount of blood stains on it to me it would suggest the flag was taken of a dead soldier.

It would seem pointless to add kanji to a blood stained tattered flag in my opinion.
Could the hand writing be done by children ? Or like said an un educated person.

Looking forward to hearing more

#10 Fortunes Of War

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 10:31 AM

     When I first saw this flag, I made note that many of the characters may not have been written by a Japanese person.  I was also somewhat skeptical of some of the combinations of characters.  On the other hand, some of the individual characters seem to be good, for instance the first character for "Hissho" or Certain Victory, placed near the 12 o'clock position.  The second character of the slogan, however, seems to be lacking (unless I have missed it).  The flag is heavily damaged with tears and what appears to be battle stains and the stains are somewhat faded (washed?).  The tearing may have been done by insects or rodents, while the almost square patterns of tears look to have been made deliberately.  The "Intel" stamp looks like the examples shown in my book on page 117 and could be good.  Whenever I see a flag that has good qualities and "unusual" ones, I try and rationalize why the odd things might still be correct.  If I am not confident in those explanations, I tend to not pursue the item.  This flag almost appears to be something that was doctored at some point in order to make it look better than it was. 

 

Mike     



#11 Leo

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 11:09 AM

     When I first saw this flag, I made note that many of the characters may not have been written by a Japanese person.  I was also somewhat skeptical of some of the combinations of characters.  On the other hand, some of the individual characters seem to be good, for instance the first character for "Hissho" or Certain Victory, placed near the 12 o'clock position.  The second character of the slogan, however, seems to be lacking (unless I have missed it).  The flag is heavily damaged with tears and what appears to be battle stains and the stains are somewhat faded (washed?).  The tearing may have been done by insects or rodents, while the almost square patterns of tears look to have been made deliberately.  The "Intel" stamp looks like the examples shown in my book on page 117 and could be good.  Whenever I see a flag that has good qualities and "unusual" ones, I try and rationalize why the odd things might still be correct.  If I am not confident in those explanations, I tend to not pursue the item.  This flag almost appears to be something that was doctored at some point in order to make it look better than it was. 
 
Mike     


Thankyou Mike

And thanks for taking the time to help with this flag

#12 Fortunes Of War

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 12:23 PM

Hi Dean-

     I was happy to take a look at the flag.  Again, it is a bit confusing whenever there seem to be correct qualities and odd ones.  I'm not aware of anyone adding bad intel stamps to flags (I'm not saying that they don't, I'm just not aware of it), I am aware of old style or old looking kanji stamps being placed on modern forged Japanese good luck flags.  As a matter of fact, I was shown a variety of religious type stamps last week that were being offered for sale. 

     I'm sure that many of the long time collectors here are aware of the movement to restrict or discourage the purchasing and sale of good luck flags.  One of the purposes of the continued introduction of bad flags seems to be in order to drive down interest in the buying and selling of good luck flags in general.  The thought is that if you cannot be certain of the flag's authenticity, you won't buy it and the market will eventually evaporate.  That hasn't worked in the buying and selling of say, SS helmets which typically sell for many thousands of dollars, however.  In relative terms, good luck flags are simply not that costly, so my thinking gravitates to other reasons for seeing so many of them faked.....other than someone faking them for strictly monetary gain.  Specialty flags of course, like art or painted tiger examples can make the faking worth the seller's while and hence, "the ebay monkey's" fake tigers.  Folks have come to recognize his fakes now, so the prices on those are nowhere near those of authentic examples.  It's a minefield out there for sure....

 

Mike   



#13 Eric Queen

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 07:08 AM

As I told Leo (Dean) via PM, in my opinion not a single character on this flag was written by someone educated in the Japanese writing system. I think it is a Sea Bee flag (at best) 



#14 Leo

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 08:45 AM

Eric and Mike I Thankyou both for your valuable input

Respectfully

Leo and Dean


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