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Polish Vis wz. 35 Auto Pistol in the US service


Guest Gregory
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Guest Gregory

Hello,

 

I would say that today's motherland of the Polish Vis Auto Pistols removed from Poland to the USA due to mass re-capturing those pistols by the US troops in the MTO and ETO. I mean the pistols captured earlier WWII by the Germans in Poland.

 

For your information -- Vis is correct name of the pistol you American friends call "Radom" though it is totally abstract and incorect name. "Radom" is only mid-size city in Poland where Vis pistols were manufactured. Imagine the situation that a state in the world calls "Hartford" your .45 Auto because one of the word stamped on its surface is "Hartford" and you do have a view of this merit-based error. The only one correct name of this weapon is Vis wz. 1935 or in shorter form Vis wz. 35.

 

What I would like to propose is posting the pictures of the US troops with captured Vis pistols if such images exist of course. Thanks to its dimensions Vis fits ideally to all US pistol holsters. Perhaps somebody in the US Army from MTO to ETO used this gun and it can be seen at the pictures?

 

Best regards

 

Greg

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Guest artu44

It's a widespread habit. Even here in Italy we call "Saint Etienne" every french single shot bolt action from Chassepot to the Gras M1874 cause this city name it's beautifully engraved on receiver. And we too call Radom the Vz35 but I think the first to start with this mistake would have been german soldiers and others followed. Being engraved on the slide "F.B. RADOM VIS", they used RADOM as short form. If you would have write FABRIKA BRONI today people would call this gun BRONI.

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Guest gunbarrel

The same thing happened with the "V-44" knife, or machete. The real V-44 is a non-folding machete with walnut handle and blue blade Case made for the Navy in 1944. For some reason, somebody called a Collins No. 18 a V-44 and the name stuck. think.gif

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Guest Gregory

Hi friends

 

Terminology problems are international sometimes, as we can see. Thank you very much for your interesting comments. I do not want to tell that we the Poles are unique in the world none the less in my country there is strong rule to call military items as they have been called originally. The Colt is Colt, M1911 is M1911, not "Hartford" one as I joked above... ;) The same goes for all other weapon models of the army, navy and air force.

 

I do not know how much the US troops liked the Vises during WWII, but today's US collectors like them very much as I can hear from my colleagues. From various sources I know that these pistols take part in the gun shows and they are collectible items as well. From a member of the USA-based Polish-American Living History Association I heard about the US collector who collects only Polish-manufactured (not German) Vises never de-wrapped from their manufacturer's grease and paper. His collection literally never seen daylight and - as I heard - he has more than 32 such brand-new Vises.

 

I am curious how many Vises the US troops took to the USA after WWII but most likely such a statistics does not exist...?

 

Thanks for comments, best regards

 

Greg

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Guest copdoc

Hi Gregory

 

Here are a few. US, Polish and German

 

My Dad was in the 13th and 82 Airborne in WWII. He brought home a Vis that he carried some. He thought it was one of the most reliable pistols and he liked it as much as the M1911A1 Remignton Rand that he carried and brought back. The bad thing is it was chrome plated but it was when he got it in 1944 so he is going to leave it that way. He will be 85 tomorrow. They would get German truncated cone ammo which he called "subgun ammo" to use in the Vis. It had much better penentration than the 45 for shooting through walls. He had not seen a Browning High Power at that time. It is a 3 lever, without Polish eagle, small screw, black grips, chromed and in a US holster.

 

A friend's uncle (Vito) was in the Polish Resistance carried one. He also thought it was one of the best pistols in the world, but he was Polish. My Dad did not care who made them they were just looking for reliable firearms for personal use. I don't have a photo here but will take one if you want. My Dad always refered to it as the Radom or P35, the Polish resistance vet "Uncle Vito" did not know what I was talking about until he realized Radom ment Vis. I had to speak in German with him and my German was not very good. He spoke Polish, German, Hebrew and some English.

 

Another friend of mine was in the German 6th fallschirmjagers. He also carried a Vis and loved it. He and my Dad both dispised P38s(???), loved the Lugers but thought the Vis was a much better pistol and as good as the M1911A1. Herr Meca had to get rid of his Vis after the war with his uniform and MP44. He pretended to be French and joined the Foreign Legion.

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Guest artu44

Well Greg, you have to make difference between slang and correct denomination, all serious collectors do know the correct denomination o this polish gun but they in conversation use the slang Radom denomination. Things are different with the polish mauser Vz24: all the world call it Vz24. I think the difference in names, correct and slang, could depend on how much a gun is advertised. The 1911 is a well known gun since the WWI then none had the idea to create the slang "HARTFORD" but a lot of people use the slang "Colt" for all 1911s whoever produced it or Browning for the FN 1935HP. In opposite way italian partisans called "BUFFALO" the "never saw before" Browning MG .30. As regards the Vz35 veteran bring-backs, I can say that in late 60s it was a quite common gun to see here as german left-back, too bad most were converted in cal. .30 luger being the 9mm illegal in Italy.

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Guest Gregory
He thought it was one of the most reliable pistols and he liked it as much as the M1911A1 Remignton Rand that he carried and brought back.

Because it was genius project. I would say that Vis wz. 35 is a handgun counterpart of P-51 fighter when it comes to designing proces. Vis was designed basically within two days only by highly talented engineer Piotr Wilniewczyc who after WWII was the Professor of Warsaw Technical University.

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Guest dustin
The same thing happened with the "V-44" knife, or machete. The real V-44 is a non-folding machete with walnut handle and blue blade Case made for the Navy in 1944. For some reason, somebody called a Collins No. 18 a V-44 and the name stuck. think.gif

not get too far off topic here, you are correct on the v-44 mislabel but you are about a year off they were made in 1943.It was actually produced for the bureau of aeronautics.during 1942 navy pilots began to carry the AAF 10" folding machete as a emergency/survival tool ,often these were carried in a leather scabbard as pictured in the buaer equipment supply catalog from the era as they are great for cracking coconuts and making shelters or make shift rafts.The V-44 was developed from request of the buaer based of the design of the AAF 10" folding model,the drawings were made in parrallel with the new model back pad kit M-592 at the beginning of 1943 which is incorperated as a standard component,the first shipments of the new m-592 were recieved at central supply points in august 1943.The drawing number for the V-44 dates from jan.-feb. 1943.

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Guest Gregory

Thank you very much for all voices. :)

 

My Dad was in the 13th and 82 Airborne in WWII. He brought home a Vis that he carried some. He thought it was one of the most reliable pistols and he liked it as much as the M1911A1 Remignton Rand that he carried and brought back. The bad thing is it was chrome plated but it was when he got it in 1944 so he is going to leave it that way. He will be 85 tomorrow.

Wish your Dad all the best and good health to him from Poland and his Vis original "motherland".

 

It is a 3 lever, without Polish eagle, small screw, black grips, chromed and in a US holster. […] My Dad did not care who made them they were just looking for reliable firearms for personal use. I don't have a photo here but will take one if you want.

Yes, I want very much. If it would not be too troublesome for you I would love to see it and perhaps not only me.

 

Another friend of mine was in the German 6th fallschirmjagers. He also carried a Vis and loved it. He and my Dad both dispised P38s(???), loved the Lugers but thought the Vis was a much better pistol and as good as the M1911A1.

That is why I think the US troops also discovered that Vis is very good, user-friendly gun and used it in MTO and ETO. It would be hard to believe that they did not use Vises despite their 9mm caliber.

 

Thanks all for interesting discuss.

 

Best regards

 

Greg

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Guest artu44

Excuse me Greg but "genius project" is a bit excessive for the Vz35. The gun is an all Browning design with a couple of original features, the hammer decocker (useful but not mandatory) and the recoil sprig guide acting on the slide catch avoid the ridicolous tube-plungers assy of the 1911. On the other side you have to disassembly the gun with the recoil spring compressed enough to be uneasy. To me a lot of WWII era pistols are Browning genius project with sometime added domestic features. A little trivia. A friend of mine had a late wartime Vz35 without firing pin then he took dimensions of the slide recess and made a new one on a lathe. He did ignore which is an inertial firing pin so the first time he used the device the gun shot.

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Guest Gregory

Hello,

 

My nextdoor neighbor's Father loved carrying is alot and even brought it home at the end of the war.

Fantastic! Thank you very much for posting these pics. Nice to see that the original Polish Vis served good in the US 2nd Infantry Division. The holster is original Polish as well. There is only lack of leather lanyard for complete set of the Polish Vis and its equipment.

 

Excuse me Greg but "genius project" is a bit excessive for the Vz35. The gun is an all Browning design with a couple of original features, the hammer decocker (useful but not mandatory) and the recoil sprig guide acting on the slide catch avoid the ridicolous tube-plungers assy of the 1911. On the other side you have to disassembly the gun with the recoil spring compressed enough to be uneasy. To me a lot of WWII era pistols are Browning genius project with sometime added domestic features. A little trivia.

To some extent you are right because of course Browning design was fundamental for the handguns all over the world. None the less Vis was not a simple copy of general Browning idea. Vis was developed between 1930 and 1935 and as Professor Piotr Wilniewczyc wrote in his memoirs "I started at the point where Browning finished".

 

A friend of mine had a late wartime Vz35 without firing pin then he took dimensions of the slide recess and made a new one on a lathe. He did ignore which is an inertial firing pin so the first time he used the device the gun shot.

Late wartime variant is not Polish. This topic I am trying to propose writing only about 18000 pcs of the original Polish Vises manufactured in interwar period and what happened to them in the US hands, not about 312000 pcs of the Steyr-manufactured Pistole 35s that were re-designed and not so rare as the Polish originals.

 

Regards

 

Greg

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  • 11 years later...

OMG, what's this?

Ghosts of my old posts from... I do not remember -- gunboards.com? USMF?

 

"Guest_Gregory_*" it's me. :) But I didn't post it.

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