WWII photo with camo, German, Italian?

[Kia kaha]

 

[patches]

Just might be another example of the type, your type non standard cut, this Officer or NCO was captured by the French Troops in Italy, date unknown.

[patches]

Air Force Prisoners in Italy, April 1944 Anzio or Cassino, one of whom we see wears a pair of Italian Camo material pants, cut with the large thigh pocket. An unidentified Luftwaffe unit or units, they are not Fallshirmjaegers or from the Hermann Goering Panzer Division, at least we think their not from the HG Pz Div as the one guy who has his on still, does not have White collar patches, and none have the HG Cuff title, maybe then from a Flak unit??

[Preppy Picker]

The 12th SS was always an interest of mine especially their service in Normandy. Max with von Ribbentrop’s son and another before his Italian uniform got dirty. A picture from the 9th SS and an army one.

[patches]

Officers Karl-Heinz Milius, Josef Knieppe and Kurt Bergmann HJ Normandy. Milius and Bergmann wearing the Italian.

[SARGE]

Wonderful photos of unorthodox camo in wear.  These outfits would drive the stitch-counters crazy if seen laying on a militaria dealer's table.   

 

 

[patches]

Large roomy smocks made from the Italian stuff, a Luftwaffe unit again, Funkers,  HG or FJ, not sure.

[patches]

Luftwaffe again.

 

[patches]

Mehr Luftwaffe Truppen Mitt Italiano Tarn,  eine Flak Einheit.

 

[Dune Panther]

On 10/20/2021 at 7:21 PM, patches said:

 

A photo of a soldier of an unknown unit and location wearing a tunic cut in the M1935 pattern made in Italian Camouflage Material, the collar as you see is an attached Field Grey Wool one, either scratch made of removed from a wool tunic, he apparently only has the tunic and not pants made from the camouflage material. By the looks of this photo, he may be a POW

 

I think this image originated in TM-E-30-451, Handbook on German Military Forces, US War Department, March, 1945. Although I no longer own a copy, I recall that in addition to the uniform & insignia plates, numerous additional (captured) uniform pieces were shown in B&W photos (exactly like the one above) that were being modeled by US personnel. 

 

I believe that the man shown above is likely a US GI and if memory serves, that he is seen wearing numerous different types & styles of German uniform in the TM. Perhaps if someone has a copy of that TM it can be confirmed.    

 

 

 

[patches]

Oberleutnant Unit unknown in Italy, we gather in Italy, though it could be Russia. The cypher on the shoulder straps may be a P for Panzerjäger An interesting custom made jacket made of the Telo Mimetico, it has resemblances with one of the Luftwaffe Fight jackets

[patches]

22 hours ago, patches said:

Oberleutnant Unit unknown in Italy, we gather in Italy, though it could be Russia. The cypher on the shoulder straps may be a P for Panzerjäger An interesting custom made jacket made of the Telo Mimetico, it has resemblances with one of the Luftwaffe Fight jackets

An example of the style of flight jackets we're talking about.

[patches]

LSSAH. 3. Kompanie 1. Battalion SS Pz Regt 1

[patches]

A great illustration of the Italian Camo as worn by Germans, showing the wide variety of cuts that it could be found in, ranging from exact copies of the standard tunics and panzer jackets, smocks,overalls etc, to the non standard designs.

[patches]

[patches]

More, POW again of a Lufwaffe unit

[patches]

HJ. Notice the Demjansk Shield on the one, this indication he was originally in the Totenkopf Division

[patches]

Italian Camo cap, HJ Normandie.

[Dune Panther]

That kid is young enough to look like he is still in the HJ and not the Waffen-SS HJ Division (but he obviously is in the SS and a private). I think the Waffen-SS took them in at 17 years old. Wonder if he survived the war... also looks like maybe Max Wünsche partially visible in the background?

[patches]

43 minutes ago, Dune Panther said:

That kid is young enough to look like he is still in the HJ and not the Waffen-SS HJ Division (but he obviously is in the SS and a private). I think the Waffen-SS took them in at 17 years old. Wonder if he survived the war... also looks like maybe Max Wünsche partially visible in the background?

During training in Belgium troops would have been around 17 years old and 18 when they saw action in Normandy. Other SS men, the Cadre were of the youngest possible men transferred from the other Reichsdeutsche SS Divisions, your officers and NCOs, your 19 your 20 your 23 etc year olds. Even senior ranking officers, as witnessed by guys like the division commander himself Fritz Witt a general a SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Waffen-SS  at the age of 36,  Wünsche too, a  SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) at age 29, 29 going on 30. Kurt Meyer, age 33 among others. 

 

Do believe replacements however did see some 17 year olds coming from Germany after basic and arm training to the front in France, and we gather after the remnants escaped from  Falaise, and what little in the way of replacements received  in a constant state of tying to rebuild and recommitted to the front line during September. most definitely for the remainder of the war, like when it was finally rebuilt to a great degree before the Ardennes Offensive.

[Dune Panther]

Interesting details Patches, many thanks for adding them!

[12thengr]

 Original material for all this; Italian Parachute Captain. From Peter Darmans' old book, 'Uniforms of WWII'.

[patches]

9 hours ago, 12thengr said:

 Original material for all this; Italian Parachute Captain. From Peter Darmans' old book, 'Uniforms of WWII'.

Been looking around to see photos of German Paratroopers wearing this specifically made Italian Jump Smock, we imagine a few did, in both the 1st and 4th Parachute divisions in Italy. oh maybe even in the 2nd which garrisoned Rome for a bit before being sent back to the Eastern Front.

[patches]

An illustration, Panzer Mann, with a pair of pants in the material with two rather then one patch pocket on the thigh, this showing the various styles they could be made in. Mouse Grey Drill Panzer Jacket there as well.

[patches]

HJ, SS-Obersturmbannführer Mohnke commander of 26th SS Panzergrenadier Regiment, he's wearing it as is the officer behind him, the wounded soldier is not, he's wearing the SS Camo tunic.