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A Lend Lease S&W Victory Model Revolver


kfields

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I bought this old pistol at the local flea market 2 weeks ago for a good price. Obvious wear to the finish but it is all original and the mechanics and bore are excellent. I fired 18 rounds through it last week without a hitch!  There are no other markings on it other than what was originally put on it when it was made. It has the 5 inch barrel and is all matching including the grip. Shipped to the British in I assume August-September 1942.

Kim

 

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Nice, are you sure it’s lend lease? I can’t see any British proof marks? Maybe it was one that never crossed the ditch?

Here’s a few pics of mine, Australian property marked but used by New Zealand in the 1950s.A734B45C-521D-490D-B63F-A64C9A8DC843.jpeg.e3731372e6851fc5929865116157fe02.jpeg

E2750DD2-9EFA-4842-A752-D7789096E20C.jpeg.1450f0510519bdeddd4684dcb48eb814.jpegAEAF41BC-C63C-4DCB-8915-6330F04F907E.jpeg.d0bc724f8171297590244c8924924ca7.jpeg4E8F3EBB-0831-4154-B655-438E635DBE3E.jpeg.65c23a3ca272b4ab19653292cfbf1390.jpeg0FDA2DE8-2170-4B7B-AC12-6367CC0F5CEC.jpeg.58d811ff89976dc54855eb254fff58eb.jpeg

 

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I think Kia Kaha is correct that this is not a British used "lend lease" revolver.  It is the later style so called "Victory Model" due to the "V" that was added to the later version of this revolver made with added safety features and an easier to manufacture "military finish".  These revolvers were used by the US military during the war and were not shipped to the Brits.  

 

 

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More knowledgeable folks than me over at the Smith & Wesson forum are certain this is one of the British Lend Lease revolvers. Apparently not all were marked with British acceptance marks. Also this one is in 38 s&w. The Americans used the 38 Special caliber.

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Well done, is this revolver still in the U.S. if it is it would be a rare bird. As lend lease most of these would have been destroyed after the war, or were they sent back?

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Yes I am (and the revolver) is in the U.S.. 

My understanding is that the vast majority of these revolvers in 38s&w and with the added "United States Property" markings were lend leased to the British. Markings were added by the respective countries during the war or after. After the war, I think the vast majority of these continued to be used and rebuilt by the respective Armies or by the territories they were occupying where additional markings may have been added to the revolver.  Once they were determined to be obsolete and superseded by newer pistols, I suspect a lot were destroyed or sold off onto the commercial market in the 1950's.

Makes me wonder if my particular revolver avoided those additional markings/stamps because it was some sort of bring-back or souvenir? I guess I'll never know.

With regards to what I wrote above, I am certainly no expert and in most cases repeating what other folks have told me.

Kia kaka: Yours is a nice pistol! What country are you in and have you shot it yet? Your serial number is about 13,000 after mine so I would guess yours was made in September-October 1942? Does it have any U.S.Property stamp on the upper strap?

Kim

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Kim 

Yes it has the US Property stamp, 

A4580EB8-5217-4BC7-8547-B5B552FC7DC3.jpeg.aa4af6932e4afd767c98d6d2d6b1e809.jpeg
the Brits are/were very particular about proofing any imported firearms so maybe yours never left the States? Maybe worth some more research?

No I haven’t fired my one as the terms of my collector’s license is no shooting, in New Zealand you need an endorsement for pistol shooting and you have to a current member of a pistol club.

9C240576-47D4-43F8-A855-84A4D5260C6B.jpeg.837b5a6873e9aac8999193a3a6eb797c.jpeg

these pistols where used by the N.Z. Army from the 1950s. Pistols being a limited issue and only carried by officers as a mark of office.

The double D and arrow mark is the Australian Army property mark and all N.Z. Victory Pistols seem to have it indicating that the N.Z. Government Purchased these from Australia sometime in the early 50s.

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13 hours ago, kfields said:

Neat picture!

Not sure how to research it anymore. Any ideas?

 

You can write Smith & Wesson a letter with the serial number of your revolver and they will research it for a fee.  They will then send you an official S&W letter telling you how it was configured and the date it left the factory.  It will also tell you who it was shipped to so you will know if it was lend lease or not.

 

 

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  • 4 months later...
Charlie Flick

Sorta late to the party here.  Kim, your V82095 was definitely shipped by S&W as a Lend Lease item.   It was shipped to the Hartford Ordnance Depot in Springfield, Mass. which was the destination for all of the Victory Model Lend Lease shipments.  It is a nice example.

 

As you know, not all Lend Lease guns made it overseas during WW2.  Of those that did, not all received property markings by UK or other Empire countries.  Indeed, only a small minority did. That is because Lend Lease guns were intended to be lent, not given, to the recipient countries.  That is why the Lend Lease guns are marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" as their ownership was retained by the U.S. Government.  They were to be returned to U.S. possession at the end of hostilities.  As it turned out, however, the U.S. did not seek the return of most Lend Lease weapons and, thus, they became the property of the nations who had used them during the War.

 

That ownership fine point was lost on some organizations which proceeded to slap Broad Arrows of various sorts on these Lend Lease guns.  Some of that practice occurred after the end of the War when the U.S. had decided to not insist upon their return.

 

Be aware also that the earlier S&W pre-Victory guns that were purchased directly by the UK and others were not Lend Lease guns.  Those revolvers typically bear the ownership markings of the purchasing nations and are not marked as U.S. Property.

 

Hope that helps to explain your nice Victory.

 

Regards,

Charlie

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Charlie Flick
On 11/28/2020 at 6:18 PM, Kia kaha said:

These pistols where used by the N.Z. Army from the 1950s. Pistols being a limited issue and only carried by officers as a mark of office.  The double D and arrow mark is the Australian Army property mark and all N.Z. Victory Pistols seem to have it indicating that the N.Z. Government Purchased these from Australia sometime in the early 50s.

Kia:

 

Thanks for posting the pics of your Victory.  When originally shipped it would have had the smooth walnut stocks like those on Kim's Victory.  The checkered walnut stocks on your gun are somewhat earlier stocks and would be appropriate for the pre-Victory and early Victory guns.  That switcheroo probably happened when your revolver was FTR'ed in Australia in 1955.

 

You indicated that all NZ Victory revolvers seem to have the D/|\D Australian property marking.  That is interesting information.  My experience has been different.  I have seen probably 200 New Zealand issued Victory and pre-Victory revolvers here in the USA and none of them showed any Australian markings.  Rather, they all had markings unique to the NZ guns by having N.Z. /|\ over an inventory or rack number placed at the top of the back strap.  The image below illustrates this marking practice.  

 

The pic of the NZ officers you posted is also quite interesting.  Can you tell me anything more about it?   The few images I have seen of NZ soldiers with the Victory were all taken during the Italian Campaign.

 

Regards,

Charlie

 

 

New Zealand back strap marking ed.jpg

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Charlie the picture

713C764B-E32E-4C2C-A1DC-C6AA101BD2DA.jpeg.a9d4ec38e9dcaeb32446a7988f1d812d.jpeg
was taken in 1954 it is of senior officers of the 1st Battalion 6 Hauraki Regiment on Annual  Camp. All of these had served during WW2 two in both world wars. New Zealand had Compulsory Military Training during the 1950s and 60s with the large influx of men more small arms had to be purchased, No4 rifles Bren guns and Victory revolvers.the rifles and Brens from Canada and surplus revolvers from Australia, Sten Guns and 3” Mortars where made in NZ.

I still haven’t seen a NZ marked Victory yet but I’m going to start looking. If you have that many in the States then I guess NZ returned the WW2 loan guns with accordance to the agreement, NZ certainly destroyed all lend lease aircraft and a number of vehicles after the war.

 

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Charlie Flick

Hello Kia:

 

Thank you for the information on that very interesting image.

 

My guess is that there are very few NZ marked Victory revolvers left in New Zealand.  That is because a large US arms dealer, Navy Arms, Inc. of New Jersey, purchased a ton of them (presumably all) and imported them back into the USA.  Navy Arms sold them here on the commercial market.  I understand that they were purchased from the NZ government which probably wanted to get rid of outdated and worn out weaponry.  I don't know exactly when that occurred but my speculation is the 1980s or early '90s.  I am fortunate to have a couple of NZ marked examples in my collection.

 

While NZ marked Victory revolvers are considered scarce in the USA they can be found and bring considerable interest here.  I would expect that very few original examples remain in New Zealand.   I would hope that at least a few were preserved there as a tribute to the courageous actions of the NZ armed forces in WW2, but I have no information on that.  

 

Regards,

Charlie

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