20th Century RFC / RAF Cloth Wing Badges

[cwnorma]

All,

 

I thought I would start a thread on RFC and RAF wing badges.  I am generally pretty good with US wing badges, but my knowledge drops off precipitously when it comes to other nations.  I will be up front and say that I would like to obtain examples of WW1 era RFC/RAF, French, and German WW1 era Pilot and Observer badges for my own collection... But, because of my lack of knowledge I REALLY don't want to make expensive mistakes.

 

What I hope is for this thread to become a combination of examples and instruction on how to tell original good wings from the very many bad floating around on eBay and at the shows.

 

The badge below sold at a US auction for well over $1200 US.  It did not have any provenance.  What about it made the buyers so confident?  Is this a great example or did someone get taken to the cleaners?

 

 

 

So please share your RFC/RAF wings.  Any era is fine, just please explain what makes a particular wing badge WW1, between the wars, or a WW2 example.  Hopefully we all can learn, and if this thread gets enough interest, perhaps it can become a pinned reference.

 

Chris

 

[Allan H.]

Chris,

 

I would have ZERO heartburn with this wing and would be thrilled to have it in my collection, though I honestly believe the price to be nearly double what I would expect to see it priced at on a British seller's website. I have a few pieces that I will share when I have some time to dig them out and photograph them.

I would heartily recommend that anyone who wants to collect RAF and commonwealth brevets, to purchase a copy of "Eagles Recalled" by the late Warren Carroll. Here is a link for the book on Amazon- https://www.amazon.com/Eagles-Recalled-Commonwealth-1913-1945-Schiffer/dp/0764302442

 

"Eagles Recalled" is a must have for any serious collector of British and commonwealth wings. Warren was one of the most accomplished collectors of wings and he was kind enough to share his knowledge and enthusiasm with others in this volume. The $60 price tag may sound high, but the book is full of good sized color images of wings. This book saving you from buying ONE clunker will be enough to pay for itself.

 

Warren had many WWI era wings in the book- both pilot and navigator. They will give you a basis for evaluating wings as they show up in the marketplace.

 

Allan

[Tonomachi]

Here is the only example that I own which I found at a flea market a couple of years ago.  It is supposedly WW2 but made in Canada.

 

 

[Allan H.]

Tonomachi, 

 

Your wing is indeed a WWII vintage RAF wing, and it appears to be machine made, which would point towards Canadian manufacture. It has also been "padded" to make the wing stand out on the tunic. It looks like the moths have had a field day with the felt as well.

 

Allan

[Scarecrow]

A big +1 on "Eagles Recalled".

[Tonomachi]

Since we are on the subject does this RAF bullion pilot wing have a chance of being genuine or is it as I suspect a Pakistani copy?

 

 

[Allan H.]

This bullion wing appears to have been made in Pakistan. British examples in bullion would have been executed for mess dress and would have typically been smaller in size. The manufacture of this type of wing was supposed to have been suspended during World War II as the dress uniforms were not worn either. 

 

All of that being said, this wing is of relatively high quality and looks to have a good deal of age to it. It is possible that the wing could have been made after the end of WWII and before the death of George VI, but I believe that this wing was made for the collector market.

 

Allan

[Kia kaha]

4 hours ago, Allan H. said:

This bullion wing appears to have been made in Pakistan. British examples in bullion would have been executed for mess dress and would have typically been smaller in size. The manufacture of this type of wing was supposed to have been suspended during World War II as the dress uniforms were not worn either. 

 

All of that being said, this wing is of relatively high quality and looks to have a good deal of age to it. It is possible that the wing could have been made after the end of WWII and before the death of George VI, but I believe that this wing was made for the collector market.

 

Allan

Bullion wings like these came out before collecting was a ‘business’, military tailors sold or offered many of these upgraded badges to those who wanted to standout or bling up their uniforms. Many of these where made in Pakistan and in fact still are.

Good provenance is the key 

cheers Tony

[cwnorma]

These recently sold on the largest internet auction.  What about them makes them good (or bad)? The prices realized were about $375 for the RFC pilot and about half as much for the Observer rating.  Which seems low for WW1 era wings.  Did someone get a bargain or taken to the cleaners?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Allan H.]

Chris,

 

Apologies for not answering earlier, but here is my take on the two badges that you posted. First, the RFC Pilot brevet is a gorgeous example and one very similar to a piece that I have in my collection. I have no qualms with calling this an original, vintage RFC pilot brevet. 

 

The Observer half wing is a little bit problematic. Not from an originality standpoint, but pinpointing the exact age of the badge makes it a bit difficult. The design was still used well into WWII and the hand embroidery used on these brevets was similar over the span of the twenty or so years between the end of the Great War and WWII. I do like the olive border on the observer brevet and tend to see this on earlier wings. Again, I have no qualms with the originality, and I would be comfortable in agreeing with someone who states that they are WWI era.

 

As to your comments/ questions regarding pricing on these brevets, I would say that I think that someone got the pilot brevet at a decent price, but they didn't steal it. American wing collectors would say that a WWII pilot wing ought to easily bring $1,000 or so for a nice example of a US wing. The thing that you have to remember is that Britain had more pilots, and would have had wings made for each of their uniforms. Unlike Yanks, they tended to have more than one tunic, so there are more wings out there. 

 

I think that the price on the observer wing is pretty much spot on for what a WWI British observer would bring on the market. So, I would say that neither wing was stolen and nobody was taken to the cleaners. 

 

My two cents,

Allan

[cwnorma]

Allan,

 

No apology needed--we all have analog lives.  Besides, this has been a helpful discussion.  Thanks to you and the others who have added information.

 

I think you may be right and I may have an "American WW1 Air Service wing collector" expectation with respect to RFC and RAF badges.  I'm surprised to learn that just under $400 US is good buy, but not particularly a steal for such a nice conditioned badge.  Heck, now I wish I would have bid.  That is a nice badge that differs somewhat stylistically from the norm...  On the other hand, the badge at the top of this thread was well into that $1000+ range.  I wonder what exactly the two top bidders saw in it?

 

Although US Air Service will always be my passion, I am edging closer to wanting to get a few good examples of flight badges from the main WW1 belligerents.  This discussion has been very informative.

 

Thanks again!

 

Chris

 

 

[Digi-Shots]

Here’s one that I posted before but thought I would add it to this thread.

 

King’s crown (used WWII to 1951) heavily padded

[Allan H.]

This pattern of RAF brevet is often times associated with a number of various types of RAF and Commonwealth wings that appear to have been made for collectors You will see this exact crown on The RFC, RAF, RCAF, RNZAF, and RAAF brevets.. The manufacturing process is also mirrored in the SAAF, Rhodesian and the  as well as the post 1953 RAF with Edwardian Crown.  All are machine made, padded, and have the exact same backing material applied. I do not believe this wing to be WWII vintage.

 

Allan

[GAP]

Thoughts on these wings.

[Allan H.]

The RAAF wing is of the same era as the RAF wing in frame #15. In #16, I stated that the pattern of brevet is often times associated with a number of various types of RAF and Commonwealth wings that appear to have been made for collectors. The big tip off on these wings is the obvious machine embroidery with padding and a black padding that has been sealed to the back side of the wing. As I mentioned earlier, you will see this exact type of wing with RFC, RAF, RCAF, RNZAF, et. letters embroidered. 

 

As for the half wings, TYPICALLY, ones that have the same black muslin backing that has been glued or heat sealed to the back of the brevet are post WWII. You tend to find WWII vintage brevets with a paper backing or with the black muslin hand stitched to the brevet. I believe your aerial gunner wing to be post war, and the outer layer of muslin to have been pulled off of the wing. The Navigator and Bomb Aimer could date to WWII, or the backing pulled off and black paper added. I tend to believe that they are likely WWII era.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Allan