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Imperial Japanese Navy Cap Tallies


vostoktrading
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vostoktrading

I've been collecting worldwide cap tallies for years. Every ship has its story which is usually fairly easy to find out about through the internet.

A few years ago I started accumulating Imperial Japanese Navy tallies. They always pose a challenge because I don't read Japanese. Before 1945, Japanese tallies read right to left. Current tallies from Japan read left to right.

Here's a few ship tallies from between WW1 & WW2.

post-185640-0-07634300-1547934361_thumb.jpg

 

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I also collect tallies also, there are hundreds but still are difficult to find. The top three are warships...reading right to left, the first 5 kanji read "Great Japan Warship ...and the last 2 kanji are the name of the ship. The purple ribbon is not a standard ribbon but a souvenir ribbon. As a group of ships went on training cruises to foreign countries....once in port, some visitors received these ribbons as a gift. Other than the color they appear exactly like a regular ribbon. They came in purple, red, green, blue and orange which may have been red but sometimes it hard to say. The Azuma was one of those ships used for training. The bottom ribbon is a ribbon used from the turn of the century until about 1925 or so. They were taken out of service and the standard ribbons began to be made in 2 lengths and slightly smaller than older ribbons. This can be seen in the placement of the anchors on the swallow tail end of the ribbon. Nice ribbons...thanks for letting us see the pictures.. If you are interested in seeing some that I have I'll be happy to forward some pictures.

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Tiger41, I can't speak for VostokTrading, but I know I would love to see any other tallies! Maybe start a new thread with your collection?

 

Maybe you can clear something up for me, I have always understood that the tallies had a gilt type lettering from after WWI to WWII, with a bevo style being used during WWII, and a return after the war to a gilt application. Would this be correct? I only have the one tally on a hat, but really enjoy seeing these. http://www.worldmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/313260-ijn-enlisted-sailors-hat/

 

Thanks

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vostoktrading

I also collect tallies also, there are hundreds but still are difficult to find. The top three are warships...reading right to left, the first 5 kanji read "Great Japan Warship ...and the last 2 kanji are the name of the ship. The purple ribbon is not a standard ribbon but a souvenir ribbon. As a group of ships went on training cruises to foreign countries....once in port, some visitors received these ribbons as a gift. Other than the color they appear exactly like a regular ribbon. They came in purple, red, green, blue and orange which may have been red but sometimes it hard to say. The Azuma was one of those ships used for training. The bottom ribbon is a ribbon used from the turn of the century until about 1925 or so. They were taken out of service and the standard ribbons began to be made in 2 lengths and slightly smaller than older ribbons. This can be seen in the placement of the anchors on the swallow tail end of the ribbon. Nice ribbons...thanks for letting us see the pictures.. If you are interested in seeing some that I have I'll be happy to forward some pictures.

Thanks for the input tiger41. Yes, there seem to be so many and they don't show up so often.

I'd love to see your ribbons. It would be nice for everyone to use this thread to post their Japanese tallies. If possible identify them (unless you don't know).

I want to learn about these things. I have some questions.

The US Navy stopped using ship names on caps during WW2 for security reasons. Sailors just had "US Navy". Did the Japanese do the same thing?

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vostoktrading

Great collection! I like the way you have them displayed, and the period photos are a nice touch.

Thank you. Ship tallies are a little awkward to display. Most are too long so I fold them over to fit the ryker mounts. It's horrifying to see tallies cut short to fit in scrap books.

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vostoktrading

post-185640-0-74894200-1547949690_thumb.jpgHere is a comparison of the WW2 aircraft carrier Akagi (top) and post WW2 (current) Japan Maritime Self Defense Force tally. Akagi reads right to left, JMSDF reads left to right.

I suspect the Akagi is a fake because it's so clean and a close up look in comparison to the JMSDF tally, they look almost like they were made in the same place.

post-185640-0-66231400-1547950093.jpg

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P-40Warhawk & vostoktrading,

Thanks for the interest...I didn't think there would be that much interest. But let me do this. I have not mastered the posting photos process yet so I will send the photos to Bob Chatt (oh, he'll be pleased) and you are welcome to ask whatever you want and I'll give you as much info as I can.

The IJN wore cap ribbons like most western navys from the turn of the century. The embroidered ribbon was worn on the straw hat and a little later they added the gold leaf ribbon for most daily use on the sailor's flat hat. The embroidered ribbon continued in use until 1925 when both the ribbon, straw hat & embroidered rank insignia were abolished. The gold leaf ribbons continued in use and had the names of ships (battleships to destroyers) flotillas of submarines, & destroyer groups, schools, training units, defense units (naval landing force) torpedo squadrons, duty stations, hospitals, aircraft groups, harbor units and I'm sure a number of units that I have never seen. Changes in the navy changed ribbons and new ribbons for units would be added. The early gold leaf ribbons were longer and had the anchor on both ends but it location was about 2" up from the swallow tail end. This ribbon was in use until 1929 when there were changes to the IJN as a result of the London/Washington Naval Treaty. The navy changed the ribbon to 2 different size ribbons still gold left impressed on the material. The new ribbons had the anchor slightly above the swallow tail cut which is a good way to ID an older or later ribbon. The different sizes were to fit different head sizes so that the ribbons hung as evenly as possible These ribbons remained in use until 1942. With the beginning of the war the INJ began using machine made insignia which included a new single navy hat ribbon. The new ribbon style came in only one type for all personnel that read right to left "Great Japan Imperial Navy". This became the standard ribbon until 1945. There are some gold leaf ribbons of this style made very late in the war due to shortages and are very poor quality. I mentioned the souvenir ribbons earlier. I'll work on the pics !

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vostoktrading;

I would agree the Akagi tally is new. They have been reproducing them for several years now and they are pretty good. You see ribbons for ships like the Yamoto which was built several years after the individual ship name ribbons were no longer in use on ribbons.

 

To All.....

My Japanese is good enough to ID most ribbons...I would be happy to take a shot at whatever anyone has. Please show the ends if you can or if they are there. The shape of the anchor helps with ID'ing reproductions.

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vostoktrading

Thanks so much for all this great information! I'll see if I can sort through more of my ribbons and get some pics on here.

Here's a cap I purchased recently from Griffon Militaria.

The Battleship Yamashiro, sunk at the battle of Surigao Strait in the Philippines October 25, 1944.

post-185640-0-85110700-1547964960_thumb.jpg

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Thor996; Thanks for the help...I'm still working on the pictures.

 

vostoktrading; Great group of ribbons. If I may offer, the top ribbon I believe is not the fast transport "tokai" but rather the cruiser "Chokai" that took part in the Pearl Harbor strike. The "Yakumo" was used for training also and the bottom ribbon is not the "gunkan" Fuji but rather the former older battleship used during the war as a " special duty ship Fuji" for training. My apologies to your wife on the translation if I'm wrong. They are still a very nice grouping of ribbons.

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vostoktrading

Thanks for the correction tiger41. I rearranged my tallies and combined the "modern" (took part in WW2 battle) ships in one tray here.

Kongo sunk by USS Sealion in Formosa Strait 21 Nov '44. Haruna sunk at mooring at Kure 1945. Takao surrendered to Royal Navy 1945.

Chikuma & Chokai sunk 25 October at the Battle off Samar. Chokai was struck by a torpedo from DE Samuel B. Roberts which slowed her down.

Atago was sunk by the USS Darter in the Palawan passage 25 October 1944.

post-185640-0-39198500-1548190249_thumb.jpg

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vostoktrading,

You're putting together some nice cap ribbons. I jealous ! The 3 above I can help with. (Top) ribbon reads "Great Japan Number 8 Destroyer Group". As I have been told, some destroyers were in 4 ship groups called "flotillas" and that is what this represents...not a single destroyer but the group.There were ribbons just like this one but for submarine groups. (Bottom) I skipped to this one because its the name of a single destroyer "Great Japan Destroyer ???? Kazi". Sorry, my Japanese is not good enough to get the next to last kanji...perhaps your wife can get this one. This is an individual ship name. A lot of the destroyers had "kazi" in their name so it should not be too hard. It looks a little new. The middle one is a Naval Landing Force ribbon "Bakha Defense Group" which is a NLF unit stationed in China in the 1930's. I hope this helps....let me know if you get the full name of the destroyer.

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