SARGE Posted October 24, 2018 Share #1 Posted October 24, 2018 Here is an example of the 57er (1957) version of German WWII medals and awards that were produced after 1957 so serving soldiers and veterans could wear them in public again. These awards were made by the same makers that made the wartime awards but they were de-Nazified by removing the swastika from the award motif. Only specific medals and awards could be worn as specified by German law and political awards such as NSDAP long service awards could not be produced in the 57er format or worn in public with the swastika. This is a 57er version of the 1939 Iron Cross 1st Class made by Deumer after 1957. As can be seen the pin back award is identical to the wartime version except the swastika motif has been replaced by a sprig of oak leaves. One of the original wartime medal cores is shown next to the new version of the Iron Cross. This award could be worn by Bundeswehr (BW) personnel once again along with any postwar BW awards. As before, these lawful awards could be worn in Germany in the form of the medal itself or in the form of a ribbon bar sporting a miniature of the award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share #2 Posted October 25, 2018 It should be noted that these 1957 form awards have been faked. Known proper versions of these 57er awards were manufactured by makers who made original German medals and awards during WWII. For instance, proper 1957 form 1939 Iron Crosses were manufactured by: Assmann Deschler Deumer Souval (Austria) Steinhauer & Luck (S&L) It should be noted that Austrian veterans could continue to wear their original awards as there was no legal prohibition of the swastika in Austrian law. However, Souval (headquartered in Vienna, Austria) made 57er form awards for sale to German veterans while continuing to make awards in the wartime form for Austrian veterans. Of course, they also sold these wartime form awards as reproductions which made their way into the collector market as fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted October 27, 2018 Share #3 Posted October 27, 2018 Nice piece...can we see the hardware? Hardware is the key to determining Very Early, Mid, Late, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted October 27, 2018 Author Share #4 Posted October 27, 2018 Nice piece...can we see the hardware? Hardware is the key to determining Very Early, Mid, Late, etc Let me get a photo of the back of the 57er 1st Class Iron Cross and I will post it. This 1957 cross has the typical Deumer pin and hinge assembly that lays down on the back plate of the cross. In the meantime, here are a couple of shots of the 1939 iron core with a swastika. This was removed from the frame of a 2nd Class IC (not by me). Do you think this is a wartime or a postwar core? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted October 27, 2018 Share #5 Posted October 27, 2018 Not sure...I haven't really dived too deep into the crosses yet, have only owned a couple over the years. Souval was the primary maker of post-war awards, though. Which makes sense, since Austria didn't ban the Nazi forms. However, by 1957, Austrians had largely phased out swastika pieces. Many Austrian ribbon bars with 57er ribbons have devices that still have the eagles on the Heer badges, without the swastikas. Whereas the German 57ers completely removed the eagle on Heer badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share #6 Posted October 28, 2018 Not sure...I haven't really dived too deep into the crosses yet, have only owned a couple over the years. Souval was the primary maker of post-war awards, though. Which makes sense, since Austria didn't ban the Nazi forms. However, by 1957, Austrians had largely phased out swastika pieces. Many Austrian ribbon bars with 57er ribbons have devices that still have the eagles on the Heer badges, without the swastikas. Whereas the German 57ers completely removed the eagle on Heer badges. I agree with you on the Souval pieces. I have a nice postwar Souval Knights Cross that I will post a bit later on a separate thread that we can discuss. Of course Souval never made wartime KCs so they are all postwar creations. At any rate, I am not sure about this Iron Cross core either. I think it is most likely wartime but without the frame it is hard to tell. I think that because it is clearly nicely die struck iron as one would expect of a wartime strike. It is also well finished before assembly with a blued dip coating under the black paint. A lot of trouble to go to for a postwar reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share #7 Posted October 28, 2018 Here are some brand new photographs of the Deumer 57er. For those unfamiliar with these 1957 style Iron Crosses I will point out that they are seldom maker marked. Some makers did use leftover new old stock (NOS) wartime parts such as frames and pins and ribbon rings, etc. Some used their old dies to stamp out frames or pins, etc. So, from this information we can study wartime versions of the Iron Cross and see similarities to the manufacturing techniques, and some parts, that aid us in determining who made the 1957 version. The date of manufacture can also sometimes be determined by knowing when NOS parts ran out and when a new pin assembly or hinge had to be adopted for instance. Die stamps tend to develop flaws over time and these tiny flaws are helpful in determining when they were manufactured. At any rate, take a look at this 57er and tell me when you think it may have been made, i.e. early, middle, or late manufacture. Thanks, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted October 30, 2018 Share #8 Posted October 30, 2018 Fairly early...solid block hinge and the narrow c-clasp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share #9 Posted October 30, 2018 Fairly early...solid block hinge and the narrow c-clasp Thanks for the confirmation Brig. I was thinking the same thing. Deumer manufactured a well made Iron Cross. Tight soldered seams and nicely finished IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted October 30, 2018 Share #10 Posted October 30, 2018 Of the two primary makers of 57ers, Deumer pieces are certainly scarcer and of a bit higher quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share #11 Posted November 1, 2018 Brig, I think I will change the title of this thread to include the fact that this is a Deumer 57er EK since we have discussed the Deumer characteristics so heavily. So, in that vein I should mention that there are a couple of other things that collectors can look at to determine that this is an early Deumer made 57er. Another clue found on very early 1957 style Deumer EK 1st class awards is that some of these will be found with their wartime maker marking of "L11" within a squared box on the back plate by the catch. It is unknown if they simply went ahead and stamped their wartime maker designation on the new 1957 style EK or if they were using up NOS wartime stocks of frames and back plates. Another characteristic to help identify early Deumers is that they used a wider hinge pin block and later changed to a slightly more narrow hinge. One more way to date these EK is that the early manufactured examples have a more matt paint finish to the iron core. Later examples have a more shiny black paint finish. This is hard to see unless they are placed side by side. The difference can be seen between the photos of the wartime core with the swastika and the 1957 EK shown above but you have to look for the difference before it can be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.ChrisKelly Posted April 29, 2023 Share #12 Posted April 29, 2023 Not sure of any further details. This one was sold as a genuine 1957 Iron Cross First Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share #13 Posted April 30, 2023 The one you show is an odd one. It is vaulted and I am always kind of leery of these vaulted 1st Class IC. I can't tell the materials it is made from but the frame appears to be one piece. Notice how the paint runs up the interior sides of the frame. The core was painted after it was assembled and finished, like some legitimate later made IC, which means it was painted after it was assembled or it is most likely a one-piece reproduction award. The later pin is of the type used by S&L but other makers used it as well. Certainly not a Deumer 57er IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.ChrisKelly Posted April 30, 2023 Share #14 Posted April 30, 2023 This is for SARGE. Below is the neatest looking 1957 Iron Cross First Class. Obviously not from any of the official manufacturers, and a modern production, and sold "as is", with no further detail. Came from a source in Israel. Ever seen one like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share #15 Posted May 2, 2023 Never seen one made like this. It looks like a two piece frame but the inner frame is really odd and nothing like an "official" Iron Cross. The core is odd too. Once again I am always leery of these screw back awards and this one looks brand new. I know it is trying to look like a '57er IC 1st Class but it isn't there IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.ChrisKelly Posted May 2, 2023 Share #16 Posted May 2, 2023 Images: 1) & 2) this badge is die struck, not cast. 3) struck in one piece, then the center painted. This is a "novelty piece". Definitely stylized, and not sold as an original or reproduction... Simply, "as is". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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