Yes indeed this is very helpful.  Thank you very much.  I appreciate your response.  This is becoming a very consuming and fascinating hobby.  I have a lot to learn!

Wonderful thread.

Hello All,

 Sarge,

if you don't mind could you take a look at this Troddel I have.

I liked the look of it and picked this up at a Phoenix gunshow in the early 90's.

 

I collect bayonets and really never got into portepee's or troddel collecting.

When I went to research this, I looked at the charts I found on line that show the color configurations of these and I could not find a match.

 

Then  I posted this on another site and was told that the color combo do not match anything issued.

The small ball on top of the stem does not match the crown of the ball.

 

Can I get your thought's on that?

 

Thanks in Advance,

 

Semper Fi

Phil 

 

 

 

The other site is correct.  The slider and the crown should be the same color in the German Troddel system.  So your white slider is wrong and should be red.  Most probably your Troddel was postwar assembled out of parts or is a complete reproduction.  Some reproduction knots have years of wear and age by now so try pulling the twisted vertical cords on the ball apart with your fingernails and look at how it is made.  If it has new looking thread wrap between the twisted cords and the wooden form it is a red flag.  This section of the knot was generally wrapped with waste thread during the war.  If it shows reaction to black light it is also a red flag indicating postwar thread.  

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

 

Thank you Sarge,

 I pull it out again and have a look. 

 

Semper Fi

phil

Here are a couple of Bahnschutz Bayonet Knots

This bayonet came from a veteran who got it with a Miner Association Official's Sword from the same house in Germany and the German was said to be a Mine Fire Control Official.  Has anyone seen this type of knot before?

Waffenleite.

 

Welcome to the forum and thanks for showing your rather scarce Troddel for wear on bayonets.  The first ones that you show as Bahnschutz are indeed identified as such in Helmut Rettinghaus, "Die Bahnpolizei deutscher Eisenbahnen" on page 191.  This circa 1936 Troddel could be worn on the KS98 or the S84/98 sidearms.  He also shows the proper Sword Portepee with a black leather strap and B/W salt 'n pepper crown that was worn with the sword.  This sword is identified by Rettinghaus as the "Sabel-Eickhorn Modell Nr. 1693 Wrangel".

 

These two knots are often identified as SS knots by collectors and may well have been worn by the SS as transitional knots but they are regulation for Railway edged weapons.  Here is an example of the Bahnschutz sword knot.

 

 

I have heard the theory that there is a Mine Fire Control knot but I have seen nothing to back up that theory.  I have handled a Portepee that had this color combination and was purported to be a Mine Feuerwehr knot but it appeared to simply be a faded color knot to me.  The problem is that the Fewerwehr was decentralized consisting of Volunteer FW, Professional FW, and Fire-Police units.  The RZM did not control their uniforms, insignia, or sidearms & knots so there is wide variation in the FW knots that are seen.  The carmine colors often react to black light (as is proper for these) and they are very subject to fading and changing color since they were often wet and dried (wash, rinse, repeat).  The white sections are similarly subject to color change as well as being made of aluminum. plated wire, celluloid, etc.  

 

I believe the Troddel that you show has been identified as Baden Polizei and not Feuerwehr.  

 

Below are examples of the Miner sword Portepee and the Baden Polizei Troddel.

 

 

Greetings to All,

 

I have a portepee which I've had for years. I cannot Identify it. I'm quite sure it's

German related. Total length is 45cm long the band is 1/12 cm wide. All held in gold.

 

I can't find out to which branch of service nor exactly which era. Despite intensive search.

 

Can any one out there help me to Identify this one.

 

Thank you

Skip

Skip,

 

Your Portepee looks to be one for an Official (Beamte).  These folks held military officer ranks, generally as technical specialists and wore military uniforms with Beamte insignia.  These will also be seen in silver wire depending upon the rank/grade.  

 

 

Thank you Sarge, Would you know which era we are looking at

Your knot is missing the slider but it would have been gold color too.  It is probably Imperial or Weimar Republic time period.  

 

 

Thank you for your time. I think, with your help I can put this one finally to rest.

 

Regards

Skip

My latest find: Bahnschutz RBD Helle marked frog and knot.  First M98 Bayonet frog I have seen this well marked in 65 years of collecting.

A very scarce RBD frog and Troddel.  Congratulations!

 

 

Earlier in this thread I mentioned black Mourning Knots as being very rare and that I had not seen one but was looking for such a knot. Now, here are two black Mourning knots shown alongside a standard silver wire Bavarian Officer Portepee.  Notice the blue highlights on the black Mourning knots.   Enjoy.