November 9, 20205 yr #26 One last shot I suspect the flight suit and vest came along a bit later.I had fun collecting Rhodesian!Owen Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
November 9, 20205 yr #27 5 hours ago, kammo-man said: One last shot I suspect the flight suit and vest came along a bit later. I had fun collecting Rhodesian! Owen Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not the young 19 year old R.L.I. Troopies l know, Oakes need to stop graizing sadza. the guy at the back has his webbing fouled up! The one in front would have left his jump helmet cashed with his other jump kit to be picked up after the contact. No B is beautiful cam indicates an external operation. But man those boys need some P.T. Looks like he can’t close his battle vest. just joking nice kit. In my opinion the battle vests made by North or Fereday restrict movement and are too hot for Infantry work, alright if your on a vehicle. You could still buy the camo vest in Feredays Shop in Harare in 1986! Overalls look cool in the pub, but ride up when in a para harness, and are a pain if you need a dump in the woods. If the zip breaks every twig,leaf and insect gets stuck on your belly and now you have to cam up the big white aiming mark in the centre of your body. jet pilots wore greenish flyers fire resistant overalls, helo crews wore these as well and the camo ones. The Armoured Car Regiment was the place to get overalls, I’ll post some flight kit soon( but no I don’t have the flight survival vest.) cheers Tony
November 9, 20205 yr #28 Tony We were in the piss the night before and were still blasted when that was taken !Middle Aged men playing dress up at a military show all weekend!!We did a large exhibit that will show if I find the pictures.It was in a time when nobody cared but we did !I got the vest from an African chap and it only took about 6 months to get to Los Angeles.I had written it off as MIA and a very battered box showed up one day that had been around the world several times by the look of it !The F and son kit was well made for sure and I once had a chest rig that was hand Cammoed in an exact copy of the issue print.Guess someone had time on their hands.When I worked in London in the early 1990s I met Pete Cole and that started my Rhodesian collecting.He was a good man when you got to know him and a good laugh.He kindly gave me his and Barbara’s books and I would see him several times a week through work over a few years.He told me many things that were not in the book.Wild times.Your web site is very nice.I am enjoying going through it.Best Owen Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
November 9, 20205 yr #29 Thanks Owen, once I was encouraged to wear my helmet when we had a few drinks because of all the trouble I tangled myself and others in. speaking of helmets I sold my 1944 dated helmet under the embankment archers in London for 40 pounds 1987, camo painted S.A.S. Issue, was being used as a motorbike helmet by a farmer in Rusape when I got it.
November 9, 20205 yr #30 Tony I know that market as I lived in islington from 88 to 97.I got my first piece of Camo from Kent sales do you remember them ?O Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
November 9, 20205 yr #31 Vaguely, I was selling kit not collecting at that time, just got out of Africa and looking for more work so based myself in London joined the T. A. To help get cash and keep fitness up so needed beer vouchers, sold some good stuff for peanuts.
November 9, 20205 yr #32 Ha ha ha !!!Beer tokens are very important old kit not so much.We all gave stuff away over the years for nothing.It’s part of it I suppose.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
November 27, 20205 yr #33 On 11/8/2020 at 12:01 AM, Kia kaha said: Hi Owen Here’s my take, Screen printing a completely assembled khaki tee shirt where available right to the early 80s, these where made in Rhodesia, the variations come about by missing a screen in the process or sometimes turning a screen. Rhodesia had a shortage of bais edging so the neck line and sleeves would just be hemmed in tee shirt material. Calling it first pattern is reasonable, there are other patterns of camo made by different manufacturers at least one screen printed on to complete shirts, another manufacturer used printed cloth to make shirts, this cloth was imported and is not the Rhodesian pattern, more a woodland style. Which came first is hard to pin down as all where used at the same time in different areas. (Remember as collectors we label things, as soldiers they are just cam or shirts) keep up the good work, cheers Tony Bit more info on camo tee shirts the Rhodesian Army issued a khaki vest(singlet) or a plain Khaki tee, the camo tee shirts could be purchased from the P.G.I. Presidents Garrison Institute kind of a in camp store similar to a P.X. Or Naafi but with less goods. Some Units offered shirts, some with logos on. These would be used to raise funds for unit projects etc. Shops or stalls in towns also sold these . commercial variety in a stylised Rhodesian print. One thing to remember about collecting camouflage in Africa is that it is a very dangerous pastime ! It is illegal to wear or own cammo and if your seen by national soldiers expect to be arrested or shot ! 1986 Malawi we had a good time with these guys traded tee shirts, drank beer and shot the breeze there uniform was British greens and 56 pattern Denison smock which Cpl Ford Chirambo gave me, next week I was in a Zambian Prison for being a dissident.(not a fun time)
November 30, 20205 yr #35 This is what I consider the first Rhodesian camo all of these British made Wind proof jackets where issued to the Rhodesians with the full length zip and wind flap these were issued in the late 50s
November 30, 20205 yr #36 I would love to see a picture of them in use.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
November 30, 20205 yr #38 1 hour ago, kammo-man said: I would love to see a picture of them in use. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk these are from a book Rhodesian S.A.S. By J Pittaway and Craig Fourie.
November 30, 20205 yr #40 Howsit Owen Webbing is 44 pattern, the Denison smocks are WW2 type. The hat in the first shot is Portuguese Kiko cheers Tony
November 30, 20205 yr #41 Of course 44 I see it now !They sit higher on the belt.I have in my garage a box with at least 300 unissued water bottle covers !Remember when they were the coolest thing to have on the belt order!The smock is the 42 Windproof.You ever the tent in this pattern ?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
November 30, 20205 yr #42 No never seen the tent but have seen a sleeping bag, couldn’t scale(borrow) it though. Here’s a better pic of Danny Hartman with wind proof jacket and trouser and L1A1 S.L.R. proberly 1961
December 1, 20205 yr #43 Here’s the tent showing the full pattern.My mate Jim D owns this.I also remember back in the day these tents being cut up to make ally SBS smocks.With tons of extra pockets etc.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
April 4, 20215 yr #46 On 10/21/2020 at 11:25 PM, Kia kaha said: and then this pops up Thank you for the photo and information about Black Group's usage of the vertical lizard pattern. From that little 1968 "Op Cosmic" photo, I thought for the longest time that the jacket's cut was the same as the later straight flap jacket, which Zimbabwe actually used in the 80's: (from https://kommandopost.com/index.php/2020/09/14/zimbabwe-vertical-lizard-camouflage-1980s-1995/) However, your photo clearly shows the cut is very different, with only the chest pockets reminiscent of the standard East German strichtarn jacket very common on the surplus market. Do you have any further information about that particular photo? I'm also beginning to wonder if the "Black Group" pattern is distinct from the Portuguese style shirts posted here https://newrhodesian.ca/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=692, even if they were both used by the BSAP, since the Portuguese style shirts have a print that is surprisingly similar to the Mozambique version, but clearly not the Portuguese HBT fabric, here: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10164617271080467&set=pcb.917356672414004 (photos reproduced below). I have a similar shirt coming in the mail right now that was supposedly captured by 32BN in Angola. Will post detailed photos when it arrives. There's also this unusual Portuguese Dolman cut jacket, in a similar facsimile of the Portuguese pattern as the Mozambican shirt, that is still unidentified: https://www.newrhodesian.ca/viewtopic.php?p=75737#p75737
April 5, 20215 yr #48 Black Group operated in the Victoria Falls and Hwange national park region patrolling the Zambian border. In 1968 the official Rhodesian Camouflage was hard to get so most of the Reserve members would purchase there own. The Stick Leader was a regular so he has Issue camo the others have issue police Camo overcoat worn over Riot Dress, or have purchased commercial Portuguese camo, one point to note is the operational area is as far from Mozambique as you can get so the choice of Portuguese camo due to it being the only camo available, by 1970 Rhodesian Camo was issued to all and private purchase. Camo ceased to be worn.
August 31, 20214 yr #49 On 10/22/2020 at 6:25 AM, Kia kaha said: and then this pops up I managed to locate the original located here: https://reversepassblog.wordpress.com/about/ I emailed the author and he told me the picture was taken in 1973 in the Zambezi valley, a lot later than we probably expected.
May 16, 20224 yr #50 On 10/20/2020 at 3:12 PM, KommandoPost said: I actually own an "arid season" jacket as described in the first post. It is amazingly hard to photograph since the yellow-green is not very different from the base khaki color of the fabric. https://kommandopost.com/index.php/2015/09/08/rhodesian-arid-brushstroke-pattern-1960s/ Based on the pattern shapes, jacket cut, and tag (196_, with the last digit blank; I have an early jacket with the same style of tag but with the last digit filled in by hand), I believe the arid version was produced right when the standard, common version of the pattern was made. I also have several early pattern combat jackets. The prints are fairly inconsistent in terms of color order, and in one case print quality, though I've noticed that the pattern shapes on this first pattern are distinct from the common pattern. https://kommandopost.com/index.php/2016/05/13/rhodesian-1st-pattern-camouflage-1965-1966/ This is the same print used in the 2-lower pocket version Kia kaha posted. I saw this jacket in this photo of PATU "Black Group" in 1968 (from https://www.bsapgallery.org/piwigo/picture.php?/328/category/115) The photo has another interesting BSAP test pattern that later became the Zimbabwe vertical lizard pattern. It looks very Portuguese, but the pattern shape is very different. This is the only thread I've ever seen it discussed in detail:https://newrhodesian.ca/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=692 If anyone has any photos of the items in isolation, please post them so we can get a better shot of this very obscure Rhodesian pattern. I don't believe it was a Rhodesian pattern. Possibly an experimental that was tried. On 11/30/2020 at 1:09 PM, Kia kaha said: This is what I consider the first Rhodesian camo all of these British made Wind proof jackets where issued to the Rhodesians with the full length zip and wind flap these were issued in the late 50s Nope.
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