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OUT OF WALTER KOENIG'S COLLECTION W.W.2 IRON CROSS?

Featured Replies

#1

bought this out of the envelope iron cross from MR.KOENIG table at the dayton ohio military show back in 1990's still to this day i'm not sure if it's from the time period or postwar period? it still retains it's 100 percent orig. finish, the black paint is sort of flat no crusty look and it's a 3pc slab. any help on this  thanks007.JPG.1205c1daac87d4449243d564f4480404.JPG

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  • Author
#2
On 11/28/2022 at 3:21 PM, donnol said:

bought this out of the envelope iron cross from MR.KOENIG table at the dayton ohio military show back in 1990's still to this day i'm not sure if it's from the time period or postwar period? it still retains it's 100 percent orig. finish, the black paint is sort of flat no crusty look and it's a 3pc slab. any help on this  thanks007.JPG.1205c1daac87d4449243d564f4480404.JPG

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NO HM ON THE RING

  • Author
#3
On 12/5/2022 at 2:22 PM, donnol said:

NO HM ON THE RING

not getting answers on this cross so here is another one i have that i know is a authentic piece it has crusty finish & toning & marked 27 on ring

along side the other that has flat paint that i'm not sure of.

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  • 2 weeks later...
#4
On 12/5/2022 at 7:22 PM, donnol said:

NO HM ON THE RING

Hi,

 

I think both crosses are OK. Many were not maker marked and the paint quality can vary significantly on originals. These have crisp detail, nice high swastikas and dates, and the suspension rings look correctly attached and of the right proportions.

 

Best Regards

Tony

  • Author
#5
5 hours ago, Tony A said:

Hi,

 

I think both crosses are OK. Many were not maker marked and the paint quality can vary significantly on originals. These have crisp detail, nice high swastikas and dates, and the suspension rings look correctly attached and of the right proportions.

 

Best Regards

Tony

thank you i appreciate it wondered all these years if it was real

  • 2 weeks later...
#6

Glad to be of help. The cross marked '27' was made by the maker Anton Schenkls of  Nachfolger, Wien (Vienna, Austria). 

 

Third Reich awards made in Austria tend be be in more demand by collectors those made in Germany.

 

Best Regards

 

Tony

#7

I tend to think that any 3-piece cross with a magnetic center is good. I’m sure there are exceptions. 

#8

Unfortunately there are no guarantees. All types of award are now replicated using all manner of all materials and methods to hijack the unwary collector. The only way to avoid disappointment is to handle originals of all makers at fairs and meets; discuss findings with other collectors personally and in forums, and to invest in reputable books and research materials.  What makes the situation more interesting in relation to iron crosses is that the Kriegsmarine had their original crosses made with brass centres rather than iron, so as to minimise rusting in the salt sea air.  Measuring and weighing medals is also a recommended way to proceed. I have a pocket weighing scale, an eye glass and a measuring tool which I always take along to auctions, fairs and meets. (See photo attached). Once the weight and size of original medals are known through experience (and even these can vary between different makers) a quick check with the tools gives extra reassurance. Ultimately rooting out fakes is down to experience, knowledge, curiosity and dogged persistence, but despite the dangers this is a great hobby and there is always a chance of finding hidden treasures.

 

Best regards as ever

 

Tony

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#9

And that is why I haven’t collected anything German for the past 25 years, it’s impossible for me to stay ahead of the fakers. 

  • 3 months later...
#10

Post#1...

 

Definitely an original.  Really nice original, too.  The absence of a hallmark on the suspension ring does not indicate a reproduction.

High relief, correct beading on the frame, properly finished frame.  The center should be magnetic.  

 

1939 Iron Crosses with brass frames were produced for the Kriegsmarine, to prevent rust.  I have only seen a few of the 1st Class, and they are super rare.

 

 

#11
On 1/7/2023 at 10:41 AM, MattS said:

And that is why I haven’t collected anything German for the past 25 years, it’s impossible for me to stay ahead of the fakers. 

Just stick with known makers, study how they made them and understand the faults as the dies wore out. There is more than enough material out there to do so. I keep telling myself this.

#12

For reference, below are three images of a genuine non - ferrous center 1939 Iron Cross First Class. 

 

Again, in nearly half a century, I have never seen a genuine 1939 Iron Cross Second Class whose centerpiece was not magnetic.

 

 

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