I will post a few pics of a flag I got, and I wanted to ask a few questions too. My first question is how does one know it a period production. Even when you know the stitching looks like a period time item and even when it passes a black light test. Not to mention but these flags have a strange smell like old people. Also, a thought has come to my mind which I don't know the answer too. Is it possible for people to replicate these flags with correct period matter and stitching and if so, how would they imitate aging? and discoloration? So, my critical question is could people be replicating these flags with the correct material and stitching to cheat their way around and make it look like the real deal and sell it for a high price. Any advice?

 

I will show a few pictures of the flag I got. The flag was really dirty, and I didn't know whether if I should wash it. Which I did when I washed it a lot of brown and black water exfoliated from the water, I also threw in a Gentle Fabric pod that is meant to be really gentle on fabrics such as Cotten, wool and linen. I was really nervous that I would ruin the flag or damage the color, but I took the risk. After the I let the flag rest in the water, I poured the water out and I filled it in with cold water again and I put in another of the gentle cleaning pods. And I noticed the color of the water started getting red. To my thought is this normal. Does this show the flag is not authentic? or have I degraded a period period time flag with chemicals? I will add a pics of the flags. 

 

 

I have a buddy that told me that all you have to do is smell the flag. He says they all smell the same. "Old People" smell is maybe what he meant. Looking at the pictures, I think you have started the red color to run onto the white portion of the flag. Trying to clean up an item is always a risk. If I clean something, I should have left it alone. If I leave it alone, I should have cleaned it. You can't win. So I just leave the items in the original condition they are found. If you are going to be wrong either way, why bother to take the cleaning steps? Remember, it took the item 78 years or more to get the patina, or condition that it is in. Personally, I like items that show a little use, or been there look over mint condition, or  not issued condition. I have another buddy that will take an honest, used, Japanese prayer flag and soak it gently, then iron with a towel over it  to remove the original creases. To each his own I guess. When in doubt, leave it alone. Dave

I think your friend was talking about a chemical smell from the dye. Being an old person, I do not smell like a Nazi flag.

 

What does the edge of the flag look like? I saw the picture. I would think that by now with everything you’ve posted you would be the one we come to for advice 

Personally, I believe you are overthinking the whole process with the flag and while there are reproduction Third Reich flags the first thing I recommend is reading and studying from period books the manufacturing of Third Reich flags and you need to study them by looking at period examples in collections as well as references. There were literally millions of flags made from the period 1933-1945 and there is still an abundance of these original flags to be found, both as bring back trophies as well as unissued examples taken from supply depots and warehouses that have sat undisturbed for the past 70-80 years. The only way you are going to learn reproduction vs real flags is to handle them, examining the fabric types, stitching types, designs, measurements, dimensions, etc. One of the most educated folks I knew when it came to TR period flags was the late Ben Weed. There is an excellent topic on another forum about the makers of the TR flags (over 30 pages of information) that will guide you and show you real vs reproduction. We can't possibly have all the answers you seek on this one Militaria Forum and it is encouraged that you seek information from other web sites as well.. 

 

The amount of time I have spent contributing to other forums over the years will take me a very long time to add all the information about flags here as well...

 

I would suggest looking at the Wehrmacht Awards forum and under the subtopic of flags and banners: look for the topic "WHO MADE THE FLAGS"

 

Washing the flags and removing the soiled patina and dirt significantly decreases the value as well as the history and now that chemicals were used in the cleaning process the fabric may end up glowing under UV black light which will raise suspicions of others, (even if it was an original flag, the proof will be more challenging to prove and when asked why it was cleaned and chemicals used you may have a difficult time moving this one in the future). Not to mention that the red dye has now been washed out and a lesser level of the red hue is present.  

 

The risk you took, and the end result unfortunately has altered the flag. Your decision to wash the flag and introduce chemicals was one thing that many collectors will tell you never to do. The red dye from the fabric has run, and it has altered the flag from its original state.

 

I am not trying to be obtuse, but it really aggravates me to see the history of the flag being destroyed.. You should have asked some opinions before washing the flag. It is just like purchasing something, before you spend the money, ask the questions, so you may have purchased a great NSDAP period authentic flag, only to decrease the value by washing..

 

I have a number of flags in my collection, all period authentic, and in all forms of condition, from mint unissued factory clean to dirty worn and faded examples that will remain that way. 

 

Leigh 

 

 

 

 

 

Without a doubt. I have learned and realized that when collecting German memorabilia or any in general it is best to leave it as is. I am upset about the decision I have made. i have realized the info you guys gave me is right. I have made a huge mistake and now I have learned from. Unfortunately, there lays a flag that is washed. And not in the same condition it was before. Apologies for my stupidity.

No need to apologize, but just understand that we all have to learn, sometimes the hard way, but it is always best to seek the knowledge and advice from those who have collected TR items since the end of the war. This field of collecting has many challenges, and it is not something that can be taken lightly. Research, studying, investing in reference books to see what was written in the past are some of the factors that will help. The internet is a great tool, but it is only a tool and not the one and only area to obtain answers. You will get a lot of good advice, but the amount of bad advice you will get is just as high......hence the reason that you need to rely on more than one source of information. 

 

The original artifacts from the war are not getting any younger and the demand in some places seems to be growing, but you need to know what you are collecting, how to collect the items and preserve them properly and care for them and not make costly errors that will destroy items. 

 

Ask questions before hand. It will save you money and grief.

 

Leigh 

 

 

Rakkasan is right, this whole hobby seems to built off trial and error, some times you just have to learn the hard way. Good luck finding other flags!👍