Confirm this is correct variant for WW1 Gefreiter's Rank Button ?

[dpast32]

Hello Gents,  I've found a few appropriate examples of what I'm looking for, & although all are basically similar, their prices fluctuate greatly. So far, I've found Bright color, Copper color, & lastly Grey, painted versions for sale. Sometimes it's difficult to verify if it's the correct type I need, due to the seller not stating the Buttons dimensions. [ I believe 25mm +/- is correct for the Gefreiter Rank ? ] I've included an obverse & reverse scan of the example I'm leaning towards, as it appears to be authentic & the price is fair. If anyone would please be so kind as to confirm that this particular Button would be suitable for my intended purposes, I will be very much appreciative. THANK YOU !!

 

                          Best,    Dom P. 

 

 

[Proud Kraut]

The origin of the rank Gefreiter is the term "Befreit" (exempt). In this case longer-serving enlisted who were exempt from guard duties. As far as I know in WW I Fussartillerie was the only branch that used the rank Obergefreiter. The Gefreiter button had a diameter of 25 mm. Obergefreiter and Serganten wore a larger button with 29 mm diameter. Here´s a scan of an 1910 Gunner´s handbook/manual. What you have looks like a legit Prussian Gefreiter button.

 

 

[dpast32]

THANKS Lars, I just wanted to be sure !!

 

 

           Best,     Dom

[S.ChrisKelly]

Below are images of two genuine Prussian gefreiter's rank buttons.  Before the war, the buttons were a bright gold finish.  With the advent of the M1915 tunic, buttons were painted field gray, gray and green.  Inferior quality metals were used as the war continued, stalemated and ultimately turned against the Central Powers. 

[dpast32]

THANK YOU Chris, I appreciate your kind input. My Rank Button is the example as depicted above, so appears to have been one of the earlier production variants. 

 

        Best,   Dom P.

[kfields]

I found one of these same buttons at a garage sale recently. I think I paid a couple bucks for it. It's large, about one inch across. Based on the discussion above and considering the stee back with crimping, this must be a late war button?

[S.ChrisKelly]

Crudity in manufacture is likely more an indicator of a reproduction than a late-war production.  This button may be a German-produced reproduction, contemporary with the First World War-Weimar Republic era, but that's just an opinion. The "Extra Fein" hallmark with the three stars is not usually found on Prussian rank buttons, and the dull details on the eagle are noticeable. 

 

Below are some buttons which might be of interest:

 

Sources:

Images 1 & 2 (authentic)

https://derrittmeister.com/product/silver-toned-kaiserliche-marine-uniform-buttons-plain/

Image 3 (authentic)

https://stewartsmilitaryantiques.com/german-pre-wwi-nco-collar-rank-button-set.27477.archive.htm

Image 4 (authentic)

https://www.buttonarium.eu/kolekcja/guzik/5322

Images 5 & 6 (authentic)

https://archiwum.allegro.pl/oferta/pruski-guzik-rangowy-sierzanta-29mm-ik34-i11126921632.html

Images 7 & 8 (authentic)

https://www.emedals.com/prussia-a-set-of-four-large-imperial-prussian-uniform-buttons

Image 9 (reproduction)

https://mantheline.com/product/prussian-tunic-buttons-30mm/

Image 10 (reproduction)

https://nestof.pl/en/products/great-war-1914-1918/germany-1918/awards/gefreiter-rank-button-repro-5721.html

Image 11 (authentic ~ for reference ~ Gefreiter on the left, Unteroffizier/Vizefeldwebel/Feldwebel on the right).

https://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/m15bluse.htm

[kfields]

Okay....thanks S.ChrisKelly!

 

[kfields]

So I took my shadow box where I keep my German "smalls" off the wall and found that I have 3 similar buttons. These 3 have much crisper detail but are slightly different. #1 does show much wear to the front. Maybe pre-WW1 or even farther back?

[S.ChrisKelly]

First and third images show genuine buttons, definitely pre-1914.  These may be rank buttons or tunic buttons, gold-plated, die-struck.  Really great examples.  The wear is likely from polishing, and adds to the desirability and authenticity.

 

Second image shows a button generally issued to imperial forces. From 1884 to 1918, Germany had colonies, German East Africa (Burundi, Rwanda and Tanzania/Tanginyka), German Southwest Africa (Cameroon), Togoland, German New Guinea, and Kiautschou/Tsingtao (China), and this button would have been on a uniform, military or civilian, for the colonial administration/forces.  A very highly desirable button, and a good, authentic example.

[kfields]

Thank you so much! 

I enjoy acquiring these old buttons when I see them. Most of the time, the seller hasn't a clue so I end up purchasing them for little money. 

I have over 50 German military buttons, many with different motifs on them. I'll pull the shadow box off the wall again and get some pics.  kim

[S.ChrisKelly]

I think that's what makes collecting intriguing...  Those bargains, those "finds".  Personally, I like button collections of all types.  Would love to see it.  I'm sure it was a lot of effort and resources expended...  And worth it all.

[kfields]

Here are 4 more buttons I'm curious about: #5 is the largest button I have, about 1 1/8 inches diameter. #6 is similar to #5 but smaller and the lion is facing the other way.

I have more German buttons but they are of the more standard variety I suppose, those with just crowns, those with just numbers and navy buttons with anchors.

[S.ChrisKelly]

As follows:

 

4.  A 19th century Prussian button, likely a rank button, well hallmarked.  The verdigris on the reverse comes off with a firm but non-abrasive scrubbing.

 

5. & 6. Bavarian buttons. Number 5 is a rank button.  The Lion always faces to the front, and this one is a right-hand-side rank button for the collar.

 

7. An F. W. Assman & Söhne (Lüdenscheid) Uniformknöpf, for the Kaiserliche Marine, and hallmarked as such. Great looking German Navy button from the early 20th century.

 

Sources:

Image 1,

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/dug-19th-century-prussian-military-buttons

Images 2 & 3

https://wwiigimilitarysurplus.com/shop.php?p=d|eeg|GM762||

Further Resources:

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:F._W._Assmann_%26_Söhne_Lüdenscheid_catalog

 

 

 

[kfields]

Thanks S.CK.

I've always shied away from cleaning any of my old buttons. Just didn't want to risk cleaning of any "good" age, if that makes sense. Do you have any recommendations along that path?

[S.ChrisKelly]

A soft-bristled toothbrush, coupled with hot water and "Dawn" dishwashing detergent liquid will generally get the "crud" off.

 

Be extremely careful with "Barkeeper's Friend".  It's a powder, much like "Comet" except that it works by chemical action rather than straight abrasives.  However, it does contain abrasives.  "Barkeeper's Friend" leaves a film, so rinse the item, then thoroughly clean with "Dawn", then use a "Blitz Cloth".  That'll shine it enough to blind anyone.

 

That process will strip paint, including hardcore coatings like automotive paint.  It'll literally dissolve lacquer, but, strangely, it does nothing against zinc pest.

 

Your buttons...  My advice...  leave 'em alone and put 'em back in the shadowbox.  I see no discoloration that indicates damage to the buttons, or potential further deteroration.  

 

 

[kfields]

Thanks ...I think I will follow your advice in your last paragraph. 😊

Here is my shadow box of German small things.  Mostly buttons ( I like buttons) but also a little bit of other stuff that I've picked up here and there. Kim

[S.ChrisKelly]

Wow.  I like it.

 

Questions...  Are any of those Iron Crosses hallmarked?  Those bullets still live? Looks like one 9mm and a couple of G.I. .45 rounds.  Brass or steel Wound Badge? I noticed the West German DSB sports badge stickpin.  I think that Edelweiß badge was issued to Waffen-ᛋᛋ mountain infantry. 

[kfields]

Good catch on the W.German sports stick pin. When I was in the military at Panzer Kaserne (way back when), a German soldier gave it to me amongst some other things. The meaning was lost to me but now I know. 

The smaller cartridges are period 7.65 and 9mm. Yes they are live.

I'll have to check the wound badges as I don't recollect.

Interesting about the Edelweiss patch. It was stuck (hidden) in a WW2 U.S. sewing kit that I picked up so a complete surprise to me that it was there.

Yeah there are maker marks on the rings but I'd have to look again to see what they are.

Also, regarding the shoulder lapel(?), what button would be correct if I were to set it in the button hole?

[S.ChrisKelly]

This shoulder strap is piped in red, with an orange 26 chain-stitched on it.  Probably, the number was red, and faded.  Potentially, this is an insignia of the 26th Reserve-Jägerbatallion, of Jägerregiment 7, raised in 1914 as a wartime exigency. 

 

Shoulder strap piping and regimental/battalion numbers are different for the time of the Kaisers, not like the somewhat clear-cut system apparent in the Wehrmacht.  Field -gray ultimately replaced the arm-of-service colored shoulder straps, and the regimental/battalion numbers disappeared, leaving only the piping. In time, red would become exclusive to field artillery.

 

Sources:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jäger_units

 

https://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/m15bluse.htm

 

https://www.naval-military-press.com/product/histories-of-251-divisions-of-the-german-army-which-participated-in-the-war-1914-1918/

 

My suggestion for a button:

[kfields]

Okay I have both. I may go with the larger one to give it a little pop.

[jayhawkhenry]

Very nice grouping of items.

[patches]

I would venture to say this shoulder strap is for either the 26th Infantry Regiment or the affiliated Reserve Regiment. 

 

I say this as Infanterie-Regiment Furst Leopold von Anhalt-Dessau (1. Magdeburg.) Nr. 26 had as it's pre war shoulder strap color as Red with Yellow Number, Red being the IV Corps color which the 26th was in. When the new M1910 Field Grey uniforms come out, the Corps color of the shoulder strap now becomes the Piping of the new Field Grey shoulder strap, the Number being in Red. White Waffenfarbe becomes the piping color for Infantry sometime in 1915, no more Corps piping after that.

 

Shoulder Straps for Pre War Jaeger Battalions were Red, but when the new M1910 Green Grey Jaeger uniform come out, the Jaeger Batalions and the later wartime formed formed Jaeger Regiments had Hunter Green Piping always, Number in Red.