KRIEGSMARINE M35 - EARLY 1937 SD

[Paddyd00]

Hi Guys

 

I am very active on the sister site USMF as I collect US Navy M1 Helmets.  But before all that I started collecting German Navy Helmets from WWII. I have quite a few Unmessed With KMs, a few Heers and Camos as well.  

 

Here is a new one.  It has a 1937 Dome Stamp and Liner.  Its a nice example.  Tri Color has been carefully removed as you will find with the majority of Navies of this Vintage. 

 

Just thought I would share as I have never contributed here ...... No Toned Heers ... Here ... Thanks for looking

 

Z

[SARGE]

A very nice dockside view of your KM helmets.  This one has an excellent 99% gold decal.  

 

 

[jmd62]

Amazing line up you have there! Thanks for sharing. And that 1937 example is extremely nice. 

[Paddyd00]

22 minutes ago, jmd62 said:

Amazing line up you have there! Thanks for sharing. And that 1937 example is extremely nice. 

Thank you! I am proud them as they are harder to find helmets! I also find the the Kriegsmarine interesting for many reasons. The hunters … became the hunted … almost overnight. Also the least political branch from a lot of my readings. Thank for you comments!

Z

[Proud Kraut]

Great KM helmet collection, thanks for posting it here!

[shemp h.]

Beautiful lids Z !

[warguy]

Gorgeous collection, thanks for sharing. That last shot dockside and on the KM blanket is impressive. I would have to have that one as my screen saver. Very nice group of helmets there. 

[Paddyd00]

Thanks Guys! Appreciate the kind words. I will post them individually as time goes by! 
Z

[Fortunes Of War]

Beautiful decal on a very nice helmet!

[SARGE]

Speaking of gold steel helmet decals this might be a good time to bring up the topic of "gold tone" decals.  The excellent closeup of the gold Kriegsmarine eagle decal that Paddyd00 shows, and his comment on "No Toned Heers" decals prompted me to comment.  The closeup clearly shows what a proper KM gold decal should look like.  Some Heer decals were covered with clear lacquer when they were applied in order to protect them.  Some lacquer will change color from clear to toned over time and these "toned" decals can be mistaken for gold KM helmet decals.  

 

The same thing happened with Polizei steel helmet eagle decals and the question then arises if the helmet is for the regular Schutzpolizei or the Wasserschutzpolizei?  

 

 

[Paddyd00]

8 hours ago, SARGE said:

Speaking of gold steel helmet decals this might be a good time to bring up the topic of "gold tone" decals.  The excellent closeup of the gold Kriegsmarine eagle decal that Paddyd00 shows, and his comment on "No Toned Heers" decals prompted me to comment.  The closeup clearly shows what a proper KM gold decal should look like.  Some Heer decals were covered with clear lacquer when they were applied in order to protect them.  Some lacquer will change color from clear to toned over time and these "toned" decals can be mistaken for gold KM helmet decals.  

 

The same thing happened with Polizei steel helmet eagle decals and the question then arises if the helmet is for the regular Schutzpolizei or the Wasserschutzpolizei?  

 

 

Ahh.  An Old fashioned forum conversation? I like it Sarge! 

 

Much has been written about these topics on other forums (GHW and GHV mainly... I think WAF has a couple pinned KM Decal Topics).  Once you become really studied on these it is very easy to tell IMO.  Many many many ... Toned Heer decals are sold as KM Helmets (sometimes to boost the price, some unknowingly)  and then we have many posts with people showing their clearly Toned Army helmets as Navy ones.  It can be pretty easy to make the "toned heer" mistake for some unfortunately. 

 

I have never been a big microscope or pseudo science type collector.  So I personally just rely on my eyes and more importantly ... The information done by collectors (before me) to make my assessments.  Meaning Ye Olde .... what type of decal on which shell correlation.  Also uneven tones with in the decal are almost always a Heer.  KMs are straight gold throughout (no tiny specks of white peppered in).  But these also can have slight variants in shade (some are browner for instance .. etc).

 

For the ET Decals we have our work cut out for us because there is a Ridge around the Eagle and the Swastika. They will always have this do to their Multi Layer construction of these decals.  We don't know why these have these.   It was a design thing ... reasons lost to time (to my knowledge).  There is the Standard ET Decal .. with a ridge PLUS a deep even Gold.  These are the easiest ones. These have been seen on ET M35s, ET M40s, SE M35s, Quist M40s, EF M40s, EF M42s and CKL M42s.  (note the the ridge is hard to see on the textured paint sometimes for the SEs).  •••• On some ET and Quist M40 helmets there was a slight Variant of this decal that had black lines ..... I just call it an ET style because it is identical design wise.  These still had the ridge or Multi Layer construction.

 

For the EF Style Decals (made by Hubert Jordan and Koerner ... sometimes referred to as HJ&K decals) .  It becomes way trickier as the Type of Laquer EF used caused them to tone hard.  And design wise ... EF KM decals are identical to their Heer counterparts.  These have been found with Ridge and then it is speculated that the Multi layered construction was dropped so we have No Ridge EF Style Decals floating around.  These type have been seen on EF M40s and EF M42s  (perhaps on Quist M40s as well... but not the Norm)

 

I wish I had a Melange of Kriegsmarine Helmets of Different Makers to Showcase here but these days I have all SE and ET M35s.  They all have the same type of decal. Though on the SEs and the gritty paint .  One of these decals is on a DD KM ... It has a Party Shield underneath the KM Decal and was probably originally decalled as an SS Helmet as the Party Shield is on the wearers left side.

 

I will dig up some nice EF examples I used to own as well as a few that will illustrate the differences nicely I used to own and add to the thread as well in a bit. 

 

Best idea for anyone who is unfamiliar with these is to post up before buying and we would be happy to help.  Very easy once you get the hang of it. There are not really Post War applied KM Decals that are documented so it makes it easier to discern that you have a Warrtime Untouched Example :)

 

PS Sarge - I have heard the Wasserschutzpolizei were just heavily toned or stained Police decals and they aren't really accepted as "a thing"  I could be wrong though.  I never delved too hard looking into that. 

 

So Here are the Standard ET Kriegsmarine Decals 

[SARGE]

"PS Sarge - I have heard the Wasserschutzpolizei were just heavily toned or stained Police decals and they aren't really accepted as "a thing"  I could be wrong though.  I never delved too hard looking into that."  

 

Thanks for your thoughts and the excellent extra photos of the gold KM eagle decals.  And, yes gold Polizei eagles are not generally accepted by helmet collectors as belonging to the Wasserschutzpolizei (WSP).  Having said that, the WSP sleeve and cap eagles were gold colored so one can see where the argument for them can be made.  

 

Here are some photos of the gold tone Polizei eagle on my Luftschutzpolizei steel helmet.  The closer one gets to the decal the less it looks gold colored and the more silver color can be interpreted.  This is the so-called second style, or later, Polizei helmet eagle that has a boarder around the edges.  Notice the muted white color on the swastika decal.    Personally, I think this is a toned eagle that did not come from the factory in golden color.  An interesting variation none-the-less.  

 

 

[Fortunes Of War]

That's a nice looking helmet, Sarge!  Thanks for sharing.......

[jmd62]

Ditto, great looking helmet Sarge!!

[Paddyd00]

Nice helmet Sarge. Nice decals all around at that one. I like the Partei too.  Most defintely a regular Police decal IMO. Not even toned that hard. Thanks for showing it

Z