Victorian Era ID´d: British Victorian battle honour scrolls

[Bill Scott]

The Header Asks My Questions. Thanks For Looking And Your Thoughts. Scotty

[Preppy Picker]

Any marks on the back? They look British commemorating two of their famous battles.

[Bill Scott]

I know the battles but these went on a helmet, gorget, etc. There are two screw post on the reverse no maker marks etc.

 

[Preppy Picker]

Their artistic nature would lead me to believe that the same person made both pieces. Did you check to see what British unit served at both battles? It might be some sort of trophy that had the names of the units battles on it. 

[GCCE1854]

I'm having a look for what these are. Cool!

From the holes on the top of the Sevastopol piece, it looks like another of the Crimean battles would have been up there. Do you think it looks like another of those gold pieces was ever on there?

[patches]

6 hours ago, GCCE1854 said:

I'm having a look for what these are. Cool!

From the holes on the top of the Sevastopol piece, it looks like another of the Crimean battles would have been up there. Do you think it looks like another of those gold pieces was ever on there?

Balaclava right!

[GCCE1854]

I wrote to a very knowledgeable friend in the UK, and he sent back this fabulous detailed answer about these pieces! They're really neat.

Here's what he could say:

 

"The items are battle honour scrolls from a piece of Victorian equipment.  This is most likely leather given the screw posts and apparent design, although very cavalry (specifically dragoon) officers’ pattern metal helmets had similar decoration for a brief period.

 

I’m fairly confident that leather equipment is the most likely though.  This would usually be either:

1. An officer’s ‘sabretache’ (a slung bag in which dispatches or maps might be carried, but that in the end became purely decorative), or:

2. An officer’s ‘pouch belt’ (a diagonal belt across the shoulders with a cartridge case suspended between the shoulder blades) that was carried by cavalry and rifles regiments (whose dress from the outset mimicked light cavalry).  The pouch itself often bore decoration that might include emblems and battle honours.

 

The decoration on these items generally took two forms, either rich bullion wire, coloured silk and velvet embroidery, or fine metals gilded and silvered.  Even the pouches themselves sometimes had a precious metal (often silver) flap forming the outermost side.  The officers paid for these themselves, which is yet another reason why only the wealthy could afford to become officers during the system that then prevailed (intended to avoid revolution and regicide).

 

Unfortunately the two honours are especially common so it’s impossible to pin the items down to a specific regiment, although Sevastopol is the lesser common of the two and I enclose a photographed reference of those regiment’s entitled to that honour.

 

I have also considered things like silver trophies and wooden plaques that might also bear such honours, but the items seem too chunky for the former and the screw posts unnecessary for the latter.  Another possibility might have been the leather cross belts used to support the carriage of a regimental banner, but in the cavalry these were unlike the infantry carried by sergeants rather than officers, so it seems less likely.

 

Unfortunately officers dress item’s changed like any fashions do nowadays and so identifying which regiment would require a visit to every museum collection and scrutinising their evolutionary evidence.  All I can say is that a cavalry regiment seems more likely than a rifle regiment."

[Bill Scott]

Thank You so much for everyone's time and thoughts on these two pieces.Every one have a Blessed and Happy Christmas. Scotty